<p>I don't understand how everyone says that the Ivies are for rich people, and middle class citizens could never go to an Ivy because of the high tuition cost. According to CollegeBoard college finder, Harvard, Yale, Brown, Cornell, Columbia, and Dartmouth all meet an average 100% need for applicants. </p>
<p>For example, Yale's average need based grant is $38,090, while their tuition is 40,500 (not including room and board). Fin aid is also guaranteed all 4 years, meaning you'd leave with about $10,000 in loans. </p>
<p>So this means if you make it to Yale, and your parents make like <$120,000, financial aid won't be a problem.</p>
<p>Is this all correct, or is there something I am missing? How come the Ivies have such a bad reputation for being expensive, even though they all meet 100% aid?</p>
<p>Many people cannot or do not want to pay the contribution they are expected to pay. For these families, even a school that meets need may cost too much. Students who are ivy league admissions material are also extremely well qualified for great merit scholarships … so a family that is expected to be able to pay a lot by the ivy’s standards may opt for a school that gives their child merit money; it will cost them less.</p>
<p>Remember, those schools compute your financial need…not you. They all use the FAFSA PLUS an additional form (most use the Profile but Princeton uses its own form). They look deeply into your income AND assets. </p>
<p>And remember too, these schools accept about 10% of applicants…meaning that 90% or so do NOT get accepted. Their generous financial aid does you no good unless you get accepted…and that is no easy thing to do.</p>
<p>For those whose parents have a low income and few assets, the ivies could be their least expensive choice because they tend to offer the better financial aid packages. But there is big difference between what Harvard offers vs Brown or UPenn. But, for those who fall into high need by school definition, good financial aid packages could be available. For the same student, applying to state schools that do not guarantee to meet need and that rarely do meet it 100% and tend to be heavy on loans and work study, those state schools might offer less generous packages.</p>
<p>For those who have enough money, that a private college cost is not an issue, …well, they can go anywhere without regard to cost so if accepted to an ivy or any such school, good for them… They do not have to compare financial aid packages.</p>
<p>For our middle class families, and I define middle class in terms of the average family with kids applying to such colleges, they may not get financial aid. Harvard and perhaps some of the other top schools have higher break points for giving financial aid, but still if you make what is considered a lot of money, but have bought a home and life style considered commensurate with your income and not saved for what private top priced colleges cost, it’s going to be tough to come up with this money. Many families in this category have to borrow to send their kids to such schools. And if the family was irresponsible enough that they can’t borrow, their kids can’t go. </p>
<p>So a "poor " kid can go to these schools whether their parent can pay or not. THe parent doesn’t enter into the picture financially at all except to fill out the aid forms. The truly rich kid has so much money, s/he can go where s/he pleases. But those kids who are not so wealthy that they can just go to colleges that cost that much are very much dependent on how their parents managed their money and their parents’ willingness to pay that much for college. And the bulk of kids who apply to colleges are in this middle category.</p>
<p>The bulk of kids who apply to college are NOT in that middle category. Most kids who apply to college have families who could never afford the sticker price of a $50,000 college.</p>
<p>To really afford that much for college, you’d need gross wages of at least $150,000 - only about 5 percent of American households earn that much.</p>
<p>Schools like Harvard and Yale WILL give you a lot of financial aid. Harvard guarantees that if your combined income is <$60,000, you will pay next to nothing. If it is somewhere between
$60,000-$110,000 (I think) you pay approx, 10% of your annual income for each year.</p>
<p>pch…The key words in the description of Yale’s financial aid packages are “average” and “demonstrated”. For every student who comes from a lower income family and gets FA near full-ride level, there is another student who is paying $20K-$40K per year. We’re a very middle class family, but our FAFSA EFC is in the $30K range. If our child had been accepted to Yale and IF their IM EFC was equal to FAFSA, we’d only be in position to get approximately $20K in FA, some of which would probably consist of WS and/or loans. There’s no way that would be a workable situation for us, regardless of the school.</p>
<p>The bulk of kids who apply to the top priced schools, the most selective school are truly in the middle income category where they cannot comfortably afford the schools but do not qualify for any or much financial aid. </p>
<p>The average American 18 year old does not apply to top priced private schools. They tend to go to local schools, commute, go part time. The group of applicants these schools is a very select group and is comprised mainly of those in a certain income bracket. Half the kids in most schools do qualify for financial aid, but even at the top schools, what they get in aid is a little more than half the COA. That means that a lot of the families have to come up with at least $25K, still a substantial amount. And half the kids at such schools that meet full need are not eligible for financial aid. that is not representative of the population at all.</p>
<p>Such families might be “not rich enough to pay for Harvard,” but they’re definitely not “middle class” by any logical definition of the word. Nor are they remotely “middle income.”</p>
<p>The middle income quintile is $34,000 to $55,000. The middle three income quintiles are from $18,000 to $88,000.</p>
<p>As someone from a poor/working-class background, I never get it when people say things along the lines of “Our family only makes $180,000 a year, we can’t afford full cost.” Even living in a very nice upper-middle-class area, there are people who can last on a lot less than $130,000 a year. That’s not even a sustainable income level that can be generalized to everyone, and that’s after taking a $50,000 chunk out.</p>
<p>I’m not saying these people should have to pay $50,000, but if they can’t, that doesn’t make them middle class, nor does it mean they have serious financial problems.</p>
<p>Oh, and Harvard requires the average $180,000/year family to pay under $20,000. So we’ll just go with “average” for this assessment.</p>
<p>Anyone whose family makes $180,000 can afford sticker for a $50,000 per year school. They might have to cancel the trip to Aspen next year, but… the world’s tiniest violin and all that.</p>
<p>There are families here that I know who make well over than and cannot afford to pay even less than that. They have made obligations that cost so much that they don’t have it. They can’t sell their homes without owing since they are underwater with the mortgage and their fixed expenses on these homes are very high. They may have private schools for their younger kids and to pull them is trading one kid’s education (the college kid already got) for another’s. They simply don’t have the money because they are living up to that income and have made long term type commitments and may be in so much debt they are in trouble. I see it all of the time. Heck, I’m in that category. No one to blame but ourselves, but I literally do not have the money to pay $50K, or even $30K a year without borrowing.</p>
<p>Paying for private school is a choice. Owning an expensive home is a choice. Paying for a $50,000-per-year private college is a choice.</p>
<p>That someone cannot afford all those choices at once does not make them “middle income.” Even affording one of those things indicates an above-par family - much less three.</p>
<p>so true polarscribe (and billy mc!). everybody in america wants to claim ‘middle class’ EXCEPT the truly poor. actually EXPECTING need-based financial aid with a six-figure income?!? it boggles the mind…</p>
<p>^^A six-figure income is not THAT much, especially when schools cost >50,000. That’s half of a possible six-figure income. 50% is a lot.</p>
<p>I think a lot of it depends on where you’re from, too. For instance, I’m from a somewhat rural/suburban area with a low cost of living compared to wealthy areas in New England and city suburbs. Where I’m from, I’m upper-middle class, but my family’s income pales in comparison to kids at my school, who are also middle to upper-middle class where they come from. It’s not all about how comfortably you live, but where you live.</p>
<p>We’ll put it this way; if your income can support three working class families, then you’re not middle class. Probably could be “two,” but I feel like making a point.</p>
<p>
Bare minimum six-figure, but that’s not really representative. Of course, my family has a seven figure income… The figures after the decimal point count, right?</p>
<p>
Where you live does factor in, but some incomes are upper-class everywhere.</p>