The Kids Are All RightAre alarmists right about kids and the college-admission crisis

<p>Marite asked:

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Soozie:</p>

<p>Did you feel that the NYT review (which highlighted the negative anecdotes) or the more rosy Slate review gave a truer picture of the book's overall contents and tone?

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<p>Hmm, that's hard to say. My recollection of the NYT review (which I may be forgetting at this juncture) was that it provided a long excerpt from the book. That excerpt certainly painted a pressure cooker and also how the private counselor thought Julie was not Stanford material even though she was a top student with achievements outside academics, etc. So, I recall coming away from that article thinking, whoa. The Slate review seems to be saying that these kids are not unlike many kids and that they aren't college crazed but simply achievers, etc. That was a little rosy, though inside, I do think lots of these kids were like other top achievers who are internally driven and enjoy their activities and so on. But these kids were in a pressure cooker environment, no question. The Slate article barely recognizes that. AP Frank's enviroment was one extreme. But these kids were comparing SATs the day they came out and just lots of that sort of thing going on at that school and in those families.</p>

<p>Overall, I think Robbins has written a good book and I am enjoying reading it. She discusses all the issues and then also provides these anecdotes. It certainly paints a picture of the admissions frenzy in some communities, just not the one where I live for sure. </p>

<p>While your sons' HS differs in many ways from ours and same with your community, I have seen many parallels over the years. Truly, I didn't see kids here compare scores, colleges, compete with one another, vie for class rank, cry over colleges, etc. It is not the big topic among parents either. The kids who are high achievers tend to be internally driven. I don't see parents here putting pressure on kids like I see in the Robbins book. I can speak only from my own experience as never pushing our kids. We had no specific college expectations and we let them pick where they wanted to apply and attend. We didn't care which majors they picked (read AP Frank for the opposite extreme). We didn't dictate which activities they did. To be honest, our kids pushed us! They wanted to do this or that and we drove 'em all over the place to do it. We never pressured them with grades. We only cared that they always did the best they could. There were no rewards given out or anything. They wanted to do well, and I do realize that many parents grapple with kids who are not motivated in this way and luck of the draw, this part was not an issue with my kids. We didn't make them do things. They wanted to. They have high expectations for themselves. </p>

<p>While we discuss these achievers and we discuss very selective schools on CC quite often, there are so many students NOTHING like this. I'm a college counselor. I am in the middle of working on a student's case (and I should shut the CC window as it is a distraction !!) and this student is like many I have counseled who have SATs (M/CR) in the 900's or this one actually hit 1000, and GPAs of 2.8 or so. It is not so easy finding colleges though there are many out there for this kind of student. However, the students and their parents tend to have colleges on their wish list that are out of range and unrealistic. I see this a LOT. Needless to say, these kids are not overachievers. However, their college wishes, as well as their parents', are not reasonable. </p>

<p>I better get back to work!</p>

<p>I'm currently 3/4 of the way through this book. I was surprised by it; it's much better than I expected. Robbins gets you hooked on each kids's story--sort of like a soap opera, including mini-love stories (we're rooting for AP Frank and Lydia to get together!). But the best part is her honest and well-researched commentary on the pressures kids face in their quest to make it into elite schools which causes them to resort to: using drugs and alcohol to relieve stress and to relax; cheating; using ritalin and adderall to improve performance, among other things. In one section she examines the elite pre-school phenomenon in NYC. She is sharply critical of the College Board and the new SAT.</p>

<p>The interesting thing to me is that she places the blame for the pressures these kids feel at the foot of their parents and the other adults in their world. This is in contrast to most of the comments I hear from parents in real life and on CC--that it's the kids who put the pressure on themselves.</p>

<p>Quote from the book:</p>

<p><<the process="" of="" child="" "development"="" has="" become="" more="" about="" the="" parent="" than="" child.="" several="" experts="" have="" argued="" that="" parenting="" this="" country's="" most="" competitive="" sport.="" "our="" children="" are="" experiencing="" a="" childhood="" is="" no="" longer="" just="" preparation="" for="" adulthood="" but="" full="" performance="" in="" its="" own="" right,"="" psychiatrist="" alvin="" rosenfield="" said.="" "we="" parents="" act="" as="" producers;="" our="" pushed="" onto="" stage="" and="" scored="" on="" every="" single="" thing="" they="" do.="" american="" been="" persuaded="" average="" good="" enough.="">></the></p>

<p>In addition to some of the things I mentioned above, some other outcomes of the stress kids feel that Robbins mentions in her profiles include: eating disorders; hairloss, serious sleep deprivation and poor dietary choices (leading to health problems).</p>

<p>After reading the Slate review, I feel that I must have read a different book. Yes, the kids survive this regime, but at what cost?</p>

<p>hereshoping: I agree with you. I don't see how the reviewer can say these kids are not affected by this craziness. Maybe not yet. I want to see how these kids are in 5, 10, 30, 40 years. I live in a very competitive town and the schedules these kids and their parents keep are insane. At my son's graduation, all of the speakers seemed to brag about their lack of sleep during the four years of high school. I wondered why that is something to be proud of and what will be the long-term effects of sleep-deprivation. Will they maintain this over the four years of college so they can get into the best graduate program? These kids are keeping themselves awake on coffee, soda, drugs. Is is really worth it?</p>

<p>I realized I didn't mention anxiety and depression, quote:</p>

<p><<colleges have="" noticed="" that="" by="" the="" time="" students="" arrive="" on="" campus="" for="" their="" freshman="" year,="" some="" are="" already="" burned="" out="" from="" years="" of="" stress="" it="" took="" to="" get="" there.="" at="" harvard,="" i="" visited="" office="" richard="" kadison,="" easygoing="" chief="" university's="" mental="" health="" serives.="" too,="" has="" stepped="" up="" efforts="" combat="" its="" undergraduate="" depression="" rate.="" kadison="" tole="" me="" is="" evident="" as="" other="" colleges,="" coming="" with="" more="" serious="" problems="" than="" in="" past.="" he="" blamed="" trend="" partly="" students'="" lack="" "life-coping="" skills,"="" missing="" because="" helicopter="" parents="" take="" over.="">></colleges></p>

<p>I read the article....haven't read the book, probably won't....but I will comment on "overachievers"......from my vantage point about my own experience, I know I am the most productive when I have a lot to do.... those are the times when I have to be the most effective/efficient...cause I have so much to do... my employer often attempts to convince a bunch of overachievers we are underperformers!! </p>

<p>In terms of my kids, my oldest S was his most successful in his HS junior year.... when he took AP and or Honors Calc, Chem, Physics, French, US History, English, Comparative Govt seminar and Holocaust seminar....and was on the ski team and taught skiiing every weekend both Sat/Sun.... and had his highest GPA during junior year...... organizational skills and or procrastinating had always been his downfall, but he stayed in front of his commitments all year....I think he thrived when busy..... and he was more laid back (not as successful) when he had more down time in his schedule. </p>

<p>His peers were not doubling up on science.......but some took 2 languages... some were doing the theater commitments.....many were on math team etc. and they challenged one another from when they were little....not in a bad competitive way, but providing enough kids for the schools to offer advanced classes or accommodate scheduling requests to make things work. Our HS had the most NMF of any HS in the state the year these kids graduated... and the class size was only 160.....so, in summary, lots to do can be good, too much to do can be bad, the line between lots and too much is different for everyone.....and not readily apparent! In my opinion......</p>

<p>I started the book a few days ago and I can't put it down. I love hearing the kids' perspectives on their lives, becasue we as parents often don't get a full picture of what their lives are like, day in and day out.</p>

<p>One of my thoughts on the book is that it portrays EA/ED in a very negative light. Most of the kids in the book felt pressured to apply early to schools when it clearly was not the best decision for them. When Harvard announced doing away with EA today my first thought was,"They must have read that book!"</p>