Even though I am a high schooler, I understand the gerrymandering that happened the last time districts were drawn. Dems were asleep or didn’t pay attention, and the Reps. got things drawn to maintain their tight grip on the house - I have been told it will likely be at least 10 years before the Dems have a realistic chance at changing this.
I understand that every generation looks at what their prior generations “got” or “did”, and sometimes progress is made.
My dad described to me the attitudes that my gay uncle had to hide - Grandma and her generation were far more bigoted against blacks than my parents grew up with - and great great grandpa dealt with discrimination against Irish. My generation is appauled by a lot of what went on - and I think this is progress. But my grandparents generation is the one that stuck this country (and my generation) with enormous social security and medicare/medicaid debt.
But a high school diploma used to mean you were ready for the workforce, now since public schools are failing, the HS diploma often doesn’t mean much. There are no longer jobs for HS grads where someone can afford to raise and support a family - much less support themselves.
Then we need to fix the K-12 system. Expecting colleges to do what K-12 didn’t is not “college” … it’s remediation. This is part of my issue with free higher ed. The expectation will be that everyone can and should go, and that colleges will need to find a way to graduate students who weren’t prepared to be there in the first place. A college degree will become as valuable as a high school degree … not very. People will then be expected to get a master’s degree where they used to need a bachelor’s degree. Fix the underlying issue!!!
Like I said up thread somewhere. I think GA Hope program for the most part got it right. It makes college affordable for most people. It also provides for options like trade school. It also takes into account that some kids are late bloomers so it gives you a chance to earn Hope at the 80% rate after completing 30 college credits. It’s funded by the Georgia Lottery so no need to raise taxes on anyone.
GA Hope may not be perfect but its pretty damn good and reasonable IMO. So if we already have a program that’s working why not start models base on it? I really don’t understand the logic. Common sense should say hey this is working over here. Why don’t we try it someplace else and see what happens?
“The problem with Clinton’s empty promises regarding free college tuition for everyone - well, everyone who makes less than $85K - is that it is a total delusion and a cynical lie”
Sounds like Georgia, a very different state than California, has something similar. They are worth looking at, building on, and improving where needed.
Who do you think controls the redistricting process in each state? It’s not that Dems were asleep or not paying attention…
U.S. Senate “districts” are not gerrymandered, unless someone is able to mess with state lines. The senate is definitely in play this year, given that 24 of the 34 seats up for grabs are currently held by a Republican. Much will depend on the presidential vote and coattails (or the lack thereof).
I agree GA hope is a good model.
And there should be conditions for both the students and the colleges. Students who don’t qualify eight away would still have a chance later on. Colleges would have a review periodically and they could fail it. (hope is a good model, really.)
ABSOLUTELY trade school should be included.
Considering the unsustainable levels of debt incurred by students
The reason a high school diploma no longer leads to a good job is that 1)most jobs nowadays require more skills than 50 years ago: compare working on a farm or an assembly line: lots of things have changed, especially in the operating of machines. It doesn’t require a college degree, but it requires more than a high school diploma - it could even be offered as a plus year in high school, and be free. Also, the times of learning ‘as you go’ are gone - you’re supposed to start already knowing stuff unless you’re doing a 'menial’task. Finally, in the 1945-1985 period, roughly, it was normal for a job to come with a pension, job security, even paid vacation. These jobs are now hourly waged and I don’t see the ‘full benefits package’ coming back for service or industry workers.
So, we’re never going back to a time when a high school diploma was sufficient. For most good jobs, college is going to be a necessity.
‘fixing the k-12’ system depends on districts and states. We can’t wait for k12 to be fixed before we fix the college debt issue.
There are many ways to do so but we’ve really reached a breaking point and *something * must be done to curb student debt.
There are several states that have scholarship programs for lower income families. California has the Cal Grant. NY has the TAP. And the Hope is the other I can think of off hand.
In addition, New Mexico has the New Mexico Lottery Scholarship. This one is particularly generous in that after students pay the first semester tuition…but after that, tuition is fully funded at any NM public @WayOutWestMom is this correct?
The problem with GA Hope or Florida Bright Futures is that they require high academic qualifiers. BF does have a tech option that is not as tough to qualify for, but for the top two awards that are used at 4 year colleges, the number of students qualifying in the last few years has declined. Top students who are also low income can combine BF with need based aid, but average students get nothing from BF. Even top students can miss out if they don’t have the right combination of classes, including a 2 year foreign language requirement. I have friends who live in GA who also complain that the Hope scholarship isn’t enough (if their kids qualified).
BF hasn’t been cited due to the later change in test score qualifications that eliminates 80% Floridians.
If Zell Miller has relatively high qualifiers, the basic Hope scholarship doesn’t. Also, there’s an alternative qualifier and a guarantee for top ranked students regardless of hs.
“not enough” is very different from “nothing”.
For the 80% hope scholarship it only requires at 3.0. I don’t view that as a high academic qualifier. If a HS student can’t pull that off they may not be college ready. GA Hope also provides a tech college option that you only need a 2.0 for. I can’t speak to what’s affordable for each individual family but IMO having 80% of your local college covered is a pretty good deal.
If you use Valdosta State University for example this is how cost breaks down
Tuition $2613
Fees $1058
Hopes pay $2280
That leaves $1391 a semester to pay. You can either take out a loan for that amount or get a summer or part time job. If you qualify for pell then the $1391 isn’t an issue because your pell grant will cover most or some of that amount. Depending on how much you qualify for.
I don’t know how anyone can find that unaffordable. But everyone finances are different.
GA 4 year public universities require 2 years of foreign language. So Hope just requires what the universities requires anyway. Hope may not be perfect but its a damn good start.
I would have no objections to a “free tuition” program that is merit-based and with a reasonable annual cap. For a reasonable annual cap, I was thinking of $10K-$15K per year, based upon cost of living. This reasonable cap both recognizes that there are differences in local costs, but discourages colleges in very high expense areas.
The merit distinction is more difficult though in the United States even though this approach is widely practiced overseas. Let’s suppose that we say that the top 20% of students should be allowed to get free tuition as they are the ones most college ready. Should merit be graded on a national level? This would favor states with strong education systems like Massachusetts and New Jersey over weaker ones. Or should it be by state, the way National Merit determines its semi-finalists.
For acceptance purposes, do we need to go further, because certain demographic groups will tend to dominate any merit based metric? For example, do we need to do something like the University of Texas plan of choosing the top 20% of each school? This will heavily penalize the students from stronger schools, which are almost all college ready. Or should there be a mixed criteria, such as top 10% in each school, or top 10% statewide (yes, I know there will be overlap).
Of course this is purely an academic discussion, the US is rather averse to merit-based aid programs.
<<<
families with annual incomes under $125,000
<<<<
This is a joke. When you means test like this, it just causes a bunch of fraud. People pretending to be separated, hiding income, people lying about who the custodial parent is, etc.
It’s one thing to put the means test at something like $500k, but when you put the number at $125, that is just crazy.
Yep. And the general public is further repulsed if there is any aggressive attempts to verify that stated income, because someone will make a big stink about how the government is interfering with their life choices.
Aren’t there incentives for that now? You can get divorced and have only one parent’s income count (other than support from other). You can lie about custodial parent (or how much time is spent with each parent if that is the determining factor). You can hide income now. All geared toward getting more aid.
$500K would be a joke. We have the same kinds of deception with taxes - there will always be dishonest people. Fortunately most of us are honest and do the right thing.