<p>I agree that it is certainly most prudent to do a general cost, program, fit and reputation analysis on the front end when putting the application/audition list together. I would submit however that it is too difficult to predict with any level of certainly which BFA/BM/BA MT program that your child would be admitted artistically and even more difficult to predict what artistic merit scholarships your child would earn at that school if admitted. Academic merit awards have a bit more certainty (e.g. a certain SAT score will provide X dollars). A child could have a great ACT score and be âthe last oneâ admitted to an MT program. The award to make the school affordable could come solely as an academic scholarship and the child could receive no artistic award because it is being allocated to others 'higher" on the list. Conversely, for another family, the bulk could come as an artistic award with no academic merit and the school becomes affordable fo that reason. Or a need based award kicks in. We all know how competitive this process is. I guess what I and others who have gone through this process are suggesting, donât simply rely on sticker price and perceived reputation alone. If a student is fortunate enough to be admitted to one of the 22 listed above or any of the other very excellent programs, there are several ways to earn affordability.</p>
<p>Couldnât agree more with the above. At this point we have told our daughter to apply where she feels is the best match, and then if and when she gets in weâll have to discuss costs. The are too many variables to predict at this point in her process, and she will have ways to access funds if need be such as grants, loans, etc. in addition to the scholarships sheâll get. That will be a decision sheâll hopefully have to face, better than not getting in at all!</p>
<p>Each family needs to consider what ÂBest School means. If you are pursuing an academic degree and Harvard or Princeton or Northwestern or Dartmouth can deliver you a financial package that lets you graduate with little or no debt, then the choice might be easy. But barring a substantial college-savings fund (Congrats, to all the families that were able to accomplish this - what a great gift!) that is not the case with theater.</p>
<p>And so what measure does $80,000-$100,000 loan debt have against reputation or alumni connections or having an Âin with a casting agent. That question is the most difficult for families - especially since (sorry EmsDad) it canÂt be quantified. </p>
<p>But when I look at the Acceptance/Background list, it is obvious families are taking this discussion seriously â Penn State over BoCo; Texas State over Carnegie Mellon; Otterbein over Point Park. </p>
<p>Of course other factors come into play, but for the families we know, this discussion is front and center: What are the pros and cons of paying more for a name school?</p>
<p>One dadÂs opinion: tuition at many schools has defied gravity - due to the student-loan racket and supply and demand, most schools are charging way more than their programs are worth. If there is one thing the financial meltdown has taught us is that there is no such thing as a dream school if it leaves you $100,000 in debt.</p>
<p>This is reminiscent of the discussion about what to say to people when they degrade you childâs decision about pursuing an MT degree; in that thread as well the ROI was discussed at leangth. My view is that the fact some kids have to take out enormous student loans is an indictment against colleges and tuitions in general, and is no greater concern with the MT degree over any other degree. There are very few guarantees with any college degree; look how many MBAs, engineers etc are looking for work right now. So taking out 100k to get a college degree to me is ill advised regardless of the degree program. Kids in that situation need to seriously consider a community college to get their requriements done first at an affordable rate, and get great grades that can hopefully help them get scholarships to the terminal degree program.</p>
<p>The other way some look at it is that student loans are an investment. But compared to, say, buying a house for 100k, a student loan investment doesnât appreciate in value over time as does a house (the present bubble excluded), and you donât get a 30 year payment plan for student loans. Thus a much riskier scenario. </p>
<p>Which lead me back again to the point we have made with our daughter: pick the schools without looking at costs, but understand costs will ultimately be a determining factor in your decision. We will help somewhat, but her ability to get scholarships as well as grants, work study, etc means she has to have a lot of skin in the game. She gets that, and as pointed out above until we know where she gets in and what financial package is offered thereâs no way to know what will happen. We intend to enjoy the ride as much as possible.</p>
<p>âWe intend to enjoy the ride as much as possible.â Well, I am looking forward to your reports from the road! :)</p>
<p>Weâll be on the road a lot, thatâs for sure!</p>
<p>This is a very interesting thread. Of course, the âotherâ factor is helping your S or D understand that being educated in Oklahoma/Ohio/Texas, etc. can help them achieve their Broadway dreams in the same way going to school in northeast can. I know my S1&S2 came to appreciate the schools that came through with merit aid over some of the big name programs, but they wouldnât even apply to the wonderful Oklahoma and Ohio schools, no matter how much I tried. Sigh. It is so challenging to put the pieces of this puzzle together leading up to application season. Thankful this resource is here for parents.</p>
<p>This question is complicated by the fact that some colleges are far more able to give grants/scholarships than others. For instance, here in NJ, Rutgers Mason Gross costs âonlyâ $25,000 in state but it gives almost no scholarships. Whereas my son, when he went to Tisch, was awarded a generous need/merit scholarship that made the cost of attendance a third of Rutgers. These are just two examples among many. Some BFA programs are in colleges that are fairly low cost for all (eg Texas State); others are in colleges that award score-based academic merit scholarships (so you can tell in advance whether youâd qualify) in addition to other grants (eg Coastal Carolina). Well endowed private colleges with high official sticker prices can sometimes offer large merit/need based scholarships that smaller colleges cannot. </p>
<p>As a lower income single mom, I approached this with my kids by telling them that they had TWO hurdles to overcome: Getting in and affording it. For instance, my older daughter turned down RISD because they offered no grants and taking on $200,000 in loans was not an option. That was very disappointing for her but in the end it worked out as she ended up in a college that probably fitted her better.</p>
<p>We researched various colleges based on their endowment and vision statement (when you go to their website, most colleges frame their philosophy/ability on grants right there). For instance if their website directs you immediately to outside sources for scholarships with no mention of any college grants, you know right away they have little inside money. </p>
<p>Some BFA programs we did not apply to at all based on this. However, I would veer on the side of applying and then making sure your child understands that he/she has two hurdles, not one. Sometimes colleges that are âfamousâ for not giving scholarships (Tisch even told us outright at the orientation that they sadly had âvery little moneyâ as they were relatively new)âsometimes these colleges go ahead and award your child money anyway. It depends on their own ability to help combined with how much they happen to want your child, and you cannot really predict the latter. Obviously always make sure to have a financial safety.</p>
<p>Given that each applicant has a limited number of auditions that they can attend, then applying to a school that a student cannot afford without a large scholarship represents an additional âreachâ beyond just the talent audition. An applicant could end up effectively âwastingâ an audition opportunity if the school does not come through with enough money for the student to attend, in the sense that said audition would potentially displace an audition at a school which the applicant could afford (not to mention the potential for emotional turmoil as the applicant deals with an acceptance that they have to turn down). </p>
<p>It certainly seems prudent to carefully investigate the potential to actually receive a scholarship in the amount required prior to adding a school to an applicantâs audition list. If the odds are low, then one may want to consider schools with a higher likelihood of affordability rather than expend time and energy pursuing an outcome with very little chance of success (and probably an equal or greater likelihood of some anguish).</p>
<p>Applying to schools that represent a âbet on the comeâ for a large scholarship represents an additional complication in an already complex process. The risk may end up being well worth it, but it does pose an interesting question: given the amount of time and effort required to attend auditions, how many schools should an applicant audition for that they cannot afford without a large scholarship?</p>
<p>While there are many anecdotes presented about receiving scholarships, there are also plaintive posts each year in this forum from applicants who have acceptances that they have to turn down due to financial concerns.</p>
<p>Emsdad, it sounds like weâre saying similar things. As I said, there were schools my kids did not apply to because, after research, we came to the conclusion that the likelihood of their getting a grant was very low. However, some colleges have a reputation for not giving scholarships which may not be perfectly true; Iâd suggest people do their own research as everyone has different circumstances. I do have to say that all three of my children who have gotten into college so far have all been very fortunate to have been accepted to very expensive colleges on large scholarships; if we had only confined ourselves to state schools or less expensive schools (we are not well off at all) we would actually be paying far MORE than what weâre paying now. However, we have a high âneedâ - our EFC is low. That is a factor too. And these three kids were fortunate to have high test scores, which helped in some schools for merit.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that sticker price and actual price are not AT ALL the same in many colleges, particularly with colleges with large endowments and/or a BFA program that is well established and has a lot of power within the system (they can sometimes negotiate with you). Iâd really keep all that in mind when deciding where to go. I also donât see anything wrong with auditioning for some financial reaches, particularly if you can do this at Unifieds. You just never know.</p>
<p>I think the common recommendation that applicants are probably well-served to include a mix of schools on their audition list that range from âlong-shotâ to âreasonable-shot,â can be extended to also factor in âpotential affordability.â Perhaps a typical MBA matrix would help with one axis comprising âAffordability-Lowâ and âAffordability-Highâ and the other axis âAudition-Acceptance-Lowâ and âAudition-Acceptance-Reasonable.â An applicant might not want to build a list packed with schools in the Quadrant: âAudition-Acceptance-Lowâ and âAffordability-Low.â</p>
<p>As noted above, the actual âaffordabilityâ may vary quite a bit from applicant to applicant, depending on the school and the applicantâs relative qualifications and need.</p>