the lesbian issue

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>hey guys, i don't mean to put a dampener on the whole conversation, but i need to ask about the whole gay/lesbian issue at smith. personally this topic doesn't really bother me, but my parents are quite concerned (i'm asain btw, if that helps with the "understanding"). is there a large gay/lesbian population at smith - especially compared to the other women's colleges?</p>

<p>also, i keep having to defend smith from my friends who claim that i'm crazy going to an all girls school... and defend smith's name despite the rather large gay/lesbian population that i hear of.</p>

2

<p>yes, there are a lot of lesbian and bisexual students at smith. probably more than other colleges, perhaps more than even most women's colleges. but most students at smith are straight. </p>

<p>if you are straight, no one will harass you or try to convert you. you can go to other schools and find a boyfriend (it might take some looking, but it is definitely possible).</p>

3

<p>The issue is one of the two questions my D had before committing to Smith (the other being the size and hipness of NoHo). </p>

<p>A then-parent e-mailed me a lengthy e-mail on the subject. My concern was whether or not a straight girl would feel out of place. The answer was emphatically negative. After doing two separate overnights, D just wasn't concerned. After almost two years, with her particular House being nearly 50 percent gay, it's been a <em>complete</em> non-issue. Of of D's friends has been, ah, emphatically heterosexual. That, too, has been no issue.</p>

<p>From what I've heard, occasionally there are "wrong" side crushes, etc., but it seems to be much less of a "problem" than unwanted approaches at a co-ed school.</p>

<p>In short, gay or straight, I don't think gender identity is generally an issue at Smith. I've heard of exactly one totally inappropriate advance, which was dealt with severely by the administration. And my heart went out to one girl who was bi and complained that she wasn't gay enough for her gay friends, straight enough for her straight friends. Whether that's an anomaly or not, I can't say...certainly my D has friends who hit from either side of the plate and it's never been an issue.</p>

<p>Does that answer your question?&lt;/p>

<p>P.S. I'll be at an "Admitted Students" party this weekend...I anticipate answering similar questions...with any luck, parents won't be hovering around. Some Dads, in particular, become speechless but tremble when any related topic comes up.</p>

4

<p>And my heart went out to one girl who was bi and complained that she wasn't gay enough for her gay friends, straight enough for her straight friends}}</p>

<p>LUG's--Lesbian Until Graduation--have issues too.</p>

5

<p>but my parents are quite concerned}}</p>

<p>Weren't you parents aware there were lesbians at Smith/Holyoke/Wellesley before you applied? Why is this becoming an issue now? Where else were you accepted where you parents would rather have you attended?</p>

6

<p>Maybe your parents woud feel better knowing Yale has a very large gay population also. Actually more gay men attend Yale than lesbians Smith--- not to mention Yale has a Gay and Lesbian major, Smith doesn't
Or is the issue gay women are a problem but gay men are ok?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/lesbiangay/homepage.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/lesbiangay/homepage.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

7

<p>Weren't you parents aware there were lesbians at Smith/Holyoke/Wellesley before you applied? Why is this becoming an issue now? Where else were you accepted where you parents would rather have you attended?</p>

<p>Yes, my parents were aware that there were lesbians at Smith/Holyoke/Wellesley - however they before I applied they were unsure of my getting in. It was more the "we'll deal with this subject later - after she gets in" type thing. Also, their concerns have grown only after we keep recieving comments from other families/parents about these schools.</p>

<p>I guess this subject doesn't bother my dad as much as it does for my mom. </p>

<p>But in the end, the future is for me, and I alone will be dealing with this issue, not my parents. I personally think though, that i can handle this issue. After all, the academics at Smith are quite stellar. Academics > Lesbian Issues... I'm pretty sure I can heck it out.</p>

<p>Ah, thanks for the yale remark RLT - i'll be sure to pass that on to my parents.</p>

8

<p>Something else to show your parents is the Princeton Review Best 361 Schools "Top Gay Friendly" schools list -- Smith is ranked 16 out of 20, with many top coed liberal arts colleges listed. Haverford, Macalester, Reed, Carleton, Wesleyan, Bard, Oberlin -- all are on the list. The bottom line -- gay and lesbian students are everywhere.</p>

9

<p>When D got admitted to Smith and decided to go there, people seemingly came out of the woodwork everywhere (those who even knew about Smith) with, "Aren't there a lot of lesbians there?" It got to the point where I thought of printing up a card that said:</p>

<ol>
<li>Yes.</li>
<li>We Know</li>
<li>She's not.</li>
<li>It's not a problem.</li>
</ol>

<p>To hazard a guess, I'd say that a third of questions <em>really</em> meant, "Is your daughter a lesbian?"</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
But in the end, the future is for me, and I alone will be dealing with this issue, not my parents. I personally think though, that i can handle this issue. After all, the academics at Smith are quite stellar. Academics > Lesbian Issues... I'm pretty sure I can heck it out.

[/quote]

Every college has it's pluses and minuses, and I hope you or others don't make a decision about a gay community at any college. Sure, NoHo has its share of a gay and bisexual community; but, so what? As you read above, all colleges have a gay community; some are just more open then others about it. Bottom line - choode Smith for its outstanding academics and profs, as well as the unbelieveablr advising and housing system, and all will be right with the world. People get too hung up on this issue when speaking about Smith :( Fact is, if you are gay or bisexual, there will be women there for you. If you're straight, you just gotta look a little harder. When you become a student, this will become a non-issue for you.</p>

11

<p>I go to Wellesley, and we get this crap all the time too. Here's the deal: the biggest issue about the lesbian population/no boys situation at a women's college is obnoxious family members/schoolmates/parents asking you about it. Even a drunk boyfriend asked this to his girlfriend in the bathroom at 3 am when I got up in the middle of the night to pee last semester. </p>

<p>BJM8 is right- it's a comparative non-issue for the straight girls who live in the no boys atmosphere. It's just the people who don't go there.</p>

12

<p>Yup, yup, yup. I've been faced all those questions. And I actually STILL do when I transferred out. I get this conversation:</p>

<p>Person: where did you transfer from?
Me: Smith College.... (in Northampton, MA... 12 miles away from Amherst)
Person: Isn't that all girls school?
Me: Yup.
Person: Oh, wow. I see why you transferred out. I bet that kind of atmosphere wasn't for you!</p>

<p>Essentially, the tone says, "Ah, welcome back to the real society." I usually choke when I get that implication because it just shows that people are still pretty narrow-minded. That Smith is an alternative school. I usually change the course of the conversation more towards my real reasons for transferring (better fit academically and culturally-wise, closer to home). Even so, the person usually walks away totally unconvinced. You all get my point?</p>

<p>It's annoying to get that kind of assumption that I only transferred out just to be back in the "real world." Even at Colgate, I'm still not part of the real world- we still have that bubble and there are plenty of gay men.</p>

<p>I really don't know what kind of talk my parents got from other people about Smith and lesbian issue. My mom was definitely concerned and so was my aunt ('86) on whether I'd be comfortable or not. I told them that I was (am) open-minded and will take that as a new experience. After all, that's what college is all about. I have so much to share, even with only a year. </p>

<p>To OP: Definitely assure that Smith so happens to have a very, very liberal leanings and that tends to attract a lot of socially liberal students who want to meet other students like them. It's just not Smith that defines the gay culture, it's also the Pioneer Valley. It's called "Happy Valley" for a reason. There is no pressure. It's how you will make the most of your college experience- if you choose to believe that lesbians totally dominate your life, then so say that you feel like you're the only straight girl. If you choose to believe that lesbians are only the minority, then Smith won't feel that way. It's mostly how and where on campus you put yourself in. My mom definitely got the idea that there were A LOT of lesbians are Smith only because she sometimes stayed overnight in my room, in my house where half of the girls were queer or gay and not shy about it (look on their doors).</p>

<p>Don't worry, your parents will get over, especially when you start talking endlessly about your classes and your new friends! The Smith experience will change, not only YOUR, but also your parents' perspective of lesbians and what it means to be open-minded. I have never, ever so open-minded like this before going to Smith. Ditto for my parents. My brother... another story.</p>

13

<p>{{Ah, thanks for the yale remark RLT }}</p>

<p>Thank mini, he originally posted the stat….I made a poster alluding to the Yale stat and put it up in our college/career guidance room. When the Yale admission rep visited he didn’t find it amusing, but it was fun while it lasted </p>

<p>Vassar is worse…..the women students complain they can’t find a straight guy to date. I kid you not, my daughter’s acting studio hired a Vassar alumna, it was her #1 complaint about the college. </p>

<p>Gcheng, every college has something about it that not everyone will like.</p>

<p>(I’m asain btw, if that helps with the "understanding}}</p>

<p>Actually it does; more than you know. We have about a 5% Asian/Indian population in our h/s who are children of very intelligent parents. In the go-go 90’s, very bright engineers from Asia, India etc were recruited constantly b/c we don’t graduate enough scientists and engineers to fill all the jobs… Sigh!! Another thread</p>

<p>There were 18 students in my daughters IB class but only one Caucasian female, her, the rest were Asian or middle Eastern. . Considering the mentioned nationalities comprise about 5% of the class, it’s amazing they represented 85% of those in the IB curriculum. Asians put an immense (to their credit, our inner city residents could learn a lesson) emphasis on education. But at the same time, they put a great deal of emphasis on the <em>prestige</em> of the colleges their children attend. I hear it all the time.</p>

<p>You’ll like this: One day my daughter informed me her Asian friend burst into tears in French class when she got her test back.. She got <em>only</em> a B+ and was scared to death what her parents would do b/c it wasn‘t an A…My daughter commented she * prayed to Jeusussssssss *for anything above a C.and was thrilled with a her B+ ---so was I……If you have followed my posts and our trip to Paris, you’ll knows she still suck at French imo, but that’s another issue. I'm wandering, sorry :)</p>

<p>{{But in the end, the future is for me, and I alone will be dealing with this issue,}</p>

<p>You certainly sound like strong, intelligent women. Smith will benefit greatly having you as a student.</p>

14

<p>"Thank mini, he originally posted the stat….I made a poster alluding to the Yale stat and put it up in our college/career guidance room. When the Yale admission rep visited he didn’t find it amusing, but it was fun while it lasted."</p>

<p>Well, it's true. And the reason for it is obvious - in the general population, there are approximately five times as many gay men as lesbians in the population. Add to that the most famous, and best funded Gay Studies program in the country, with a history of the most famous gay professors (starting with the historian John Boswell whose work is amazing), and it's not surprising that Yale would be so attractive to gay male students. And, unlike Smith, Yale has scholarships specifically earmarked for lesbian/gay students (see the link posted above.)</p>

<p>The reason it gets notice at women's colleges is because they are WOMEN'S colleges. Yes, women's colleges will attract more lesbian students. Smith and Wellesley and (especially) Mount Holyoke have histories of lesbian students and profs (including a former President of Mt. Holyoke) going back to 1910. Society as a whole is still slow to accept the idea of all those resources being devoted ONLY to women, with women in all the leadership positions, women strategizing about what the education of women AS WOMEN should look like, women mentors, women scientists, future women senators, congresspeople, television producers, Fortune 500 executives being produced at a rate far, far higher than 1-2% of female students who attend single gender schools. It is unnerving to a lot of people - but it isn't because of the lesbians (the current Pres. of Smith says publicly, as every Pres. going back to Jill Ker Conway has said, it is a virtual non-issue on campus, even if of occasional concern to older alums.</p>

<p>But you always have choices: a school where 20-30% of the students are lesbians (or at least while in college - while there is no alumnae tracking, alumnae seem to indicate the percentage of alums so identifying is substantially lower), or schools with somewhat similar academics with binge drinking rates in the last two weeks of 45-50%.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Society as a whole is still slow to accept the idea of all those resources being devoted ONLY to women, with women in all the leadership positions, women strategizing about what the education of women AS WOMEN should look like, women mentors, women scientists, future women senators, congresspeople, television producers, Fortune 500 executives being produced

[/quote]

Absolutely dead on Mini....nice post! Society as a whole is not ready to hear about females excelling in the sciences, engineering, etc. But, after all, isn't that what Smith was founded on; the possibility of advancing women in what once were male dominated positions? Rah, Rah for Smith and the women who attend there. Smith stands for much more than a great education, and once you become ingrained into its real purpose is when you realize what you got yourself into; a great college for women which allows women to get an equal (or better) education to men. Yay!</p>

16

<p>the possibility of advancing women in what once were male dominated positions}}}</p>

<p>Smith women were influential in the FDR White House via Eleanor---although the old man wasn’t always happy.
Read "No Ordinary Time" by Doris Kerans Goowwin. Great book</p>

17

<p>There were 18 students in my daughters IB class but only one Caucasian female, her, the rest were Asian or middle Eastern. . }</p>

<p>This sounds a lot like my school RLT. There are around 36 IB students in my school, and around 8 of them are caucasian. The rest are Asian/Middle Eastern. It's a cut throat program here at my school, and here, students will do at anything to get good grades. Basically, there's a whole lot of back stabbing, and I can't stand it anymore. You don't know who to trust because some kids who purposely tell other kids wrong information so that they can advance their own class rank/gpa/grades. It's absolutely horrible.</p>

<p>For me personally, I feel its a little TOO competitive and cut throat. This is one of the reasons why I am choosing Smith. I feel that Smith does have a great academic system and learning environment, but also allows its students to have a social life too. I can't imagine having a good social life at Cornell or Harvard. I also feel that Smithies are extremely supportive. I'm really forward to this after my experience in IB. bah... i don't know if IB was really worth going through.</p>

<p>Oh just a side note: I've been on the other side of the fence too. During my freshman and sophomore year in HS, I went to a school that was strictly White. There were 10 asian kids in the whole school (each class with around 500-700 students... so we're talking about a population of around 2500 kids). So i was definately a minority. It also didn't help that the other asian kids were REALLY asian and didn't know how to speak english. so when i went to school they assumed i didn't know how to speak english (i had also just moved from korea my freshman year - that aspect didn't help me either). none of the kids at my school could understand why i was enrolled in an ap honors english class since i "didn't speak english", let alone understand why the heck i was in the ib program. they all talked behind my back during class because they thought i couldn't understand them... and they all thought i was cheating because i was getting better grades than them in english. i guess you can say i attended an extremely close-minded school... (they were asking how i got out of north korea.... and if we lived in huts.... ***?????)</p>

<p>needless to say, i begged my parents to transfer me into a different school... and they did... and here i am, in this cut throat environment... </p>

<p><em>sigh</em> wat can i say? one extreme to the other.</p>

<p>But at the same time, they put a great deal of emphasis on the <em>prestige</em> of the colleges their children attend. I hear it all the time.}</p>

<p>ooooooo yeah!!! I get an earful of it everyday. I'm glad I'm going to Smith though. It's quite presitgeous (ok, I have to admit, not AS much as Harvard/Cornell though... but it's still up there)... but for me, it just seems like name isn't EVERYTHING - though it'd be nice. :D</p>

<p>One day my daughter informed me her Asian friend burst into tears in French class when she got her test back.. She got <em>only</em> a B+ and was scared to death what her parents would do b/c it wasn‘t an A…}
I confess I was like that Asian girl throughout my HS career - until this year. I've come to realize that its sooooooo unrealistic. I can't believe I used to be like that. In fact, so many people do it in my school, that we have a new "gpa system" - the "asian system"... where 91 is <em>failing</em>.... so if people ask... </p>

<p>"oh, how'd you do on the test?"<br>
"OMG I FAILED I got a 95!!!!!"
"psh, watever......</p>

<p>but this year, i've struggled really hard in some of my classes so now i understand how dumb that is. it really does hurt though if i get a b in something and someone complains about a 97. -_-. i've stopped that now. call it a late epiphany/enlightenment... watever... but at least i'm being realistic now. lol... kinda.</p>

18

<p>You learn to ignore it, they're there, but well...think of what kind of issues you'd like to deal with at college...because every college has its issues.
At, for example, williams/amherst/colby-esque schools you find binge drinking and all that stems from that.</p>

<p>At smith/moho/wellesley types you have lesbians--a more visible group than at coed schools. If lesbianism <em>is</em> really a problem for you. </p>

<p>Pick your poison I guess. </p>

<p>(((If you have followed my posts and our trip to Paris, you’ll knows she still suck at French imo, but that’s another issue. I'm wandering, sorry )))</p>

<p>Yeah I got a little taste of that <em>sucky</em> french in DC. hahaha</p>

<p>Her Francais? mauvais.
The young male interns cruising the streets of DC? bon, bon.</p>

19

<p>G, I think you'll like Smith...it's academically challenging but <em>not</em> cuthroat. </p>

<p>I met a number of Class of '10 admittees today...you're with a terrific bunch if the ones out here are any indication.</p>

20

<p>i don't know if IB was really worth going through}}}</p>

<p>Absolutely, the emphasis on writing and critical thinking will very quickly make it apparent to you you’re more prepared than many students who didn’t have the opportunity to take same curriculum. Did you enjoy your TOK course?
At many colleges, students who completed the IB diploma have their apps set aside b/c many admission officers believe they deserve special consideration.</p>