<p>"Too many people on this thread believe that because a family QUALIFIES for financial aid they will get it."</p>
<p>Another accurate, <em>factual</em> point.</p>
<p>owlice,</p>
<p>I agree totally. I want to drive a BMW, but instead drive a Hyundai, because that is what I can afford. I don't expect BMW to subsidize my purchase to the cost of a Hyundai.</p>
<p>Just a thought</p>
<p>"Too many people on this thread believe that because a family QUALIFIES for financial aid they will get it."</p>
<p>Almost nobody believes that.</p>
<p>Who believes that?</p>
<p>"My high-scoring S doesn't have a right to go to an expensive college, and I don't think it's unfair should he have to forgo that because we can't afford it."</p>
<p>I'm reading this thread with great interest. I'm going to be one of those people who gets yelled at when the acceptances come in because I was caught off guard. I am just so damn confused by all of this. It worked out well for D1 because she chose a less prestigious school that wanted her. Nice merit money that made it affordable with unsubsidized Stafford loans. Perfect scenario to me. D2 is going to look differently, although not nearly to the level of Ivies and I am completely at a loss. We had equity with D1, but none now and our income will steadily decrease from its peak in D1's senior year. Then we will have two overlapping. D2 is trying to find options with merit aid, but how do can you really tell? We don't have a state flagship here in NY in the same way as some other states, and there are some compelling reasons against her going to a SUNY (for attending, as well, which is why it's complicated and my brain explodes). We're middle class but don't have higher-education experience to draw upon, but we don't expect anything handed to us either. As I mentioned in another thread, D2 is drawing up her list and I could have been one to start a venting thread because I'm confused and overwhelmed this time. I'm not racist, elitist, mean, entitled, but I suspect I'm like many on this thread who find the whole process a little bit much. Heck, in the two years since my older D applied, the whole world has changed. Which is why I don't get the nastiness here to fellow CCers who are just venting. Scratch the surface rather than judging and snarking and you might find a question to be answered or a legitimate issue to be resolved.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I want to drive a BMW, but instead drive a Hyundai, because that is what I can afford. I don't expect BMW to subsidize my purchase to the cost of a Hyundai.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your analogy falls flat in this case, imo. OP is upset that he cannot pay for the education he and his kid have earned and dreamed about. He is not crying about a BMW. Show a little compassion here. He's trying to accomplish a worthy goal not acquire a materialistic possession.</p>
<p>I really do not hear anything about the "Elite Universities" that are not found or offered elsewhere.
Fabulous professors? Strong students? " Winning" football team ;) ?
Lab equipment, fancy dorms... everything is available elsewhere.</p>
<p>Is someone saying he can't go to college?
I didn't think so.</p>
<p>zoosermom, my kid is only a HS freshman, and already, I have times when it feels like my head is going to explode!!! I need a roadmap, or a flowchart, or something, and the only one who can develop it is me.</p>
<p>I've been toying with the idea of starting a "college admissions parents' support group" in my area, so that those of us with HS freshmen or sophomores will know what to do and when to do it, what decisions and strategies and all are wise, and which ones will work against us.</p>
<p>All that said, I just don't get the "it's unfair!" attitude. Venting is all well and good -- goodness knows I do my share of it!! -- but I really don't understand "it's unfair" in this scenario. I don't mean that nastily! I feel like I'm missing something, I don't know what it is, and if someone can enlighten me, that's be great!</p>
<p>Actually, OP never used the word "unfair."</p>
<p>Bay- with all respect - he is not upset that he can't afford his child's education - he is upset that he didn't get any financial aid since he has worked hard and saved.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We've been saving for 20 years and not over-spending, unlike most of the families around us, and now we're being asked to dump all our money into the coffers of an "elite" private school and borrow all the other money we'll need to pay exhorbitant tuition.</p>
<p>No wonder this country is so scewed up. Another generation of spendthrifts will be rewarded for their bad habits by free school and access to power, where they can turn around and perpetuate the process all over again. They'll fill out forms to have the Government bail out their bad home loans at the same time they fill out forms accepting "need" based aid from elite schools. Unless their parents are rich and can simply write a check for the tuition, in between their country club dues and imported-cheese-of-the-month payment.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As long as people will pay the "exorbitant tuition" schools will charge it. Boycott the "elite" private school, go to a state school and don't look back. Could be the very best thing.
OR -
He can use savings, home equity or borrow (PLUS loans) to pay the bill.</p>
<p>There are very few schools that meet 100% of "need" - even "need" is left to the judgment of the school if they don't solely use fafsa. Very few of those students are going for free. For those that are - they have many hurdles to cross.</p>
<p>The tone of the OP was more than venting, it was downright bitter. Anyone who wants to vent - vent away.</p>
<p>"All that said, I just don't get the "it's unfair!" attitude. "</p>
<p>Isn't that what venting is? Finding something to rage against when you are feeling powerless and overwhelmed? Listen, I personally think it's very unfair that the aliens who steal my daughter's homework haven't left me pots of gold and I am outraged about it. Seriously, though, when something is this big, important and complicated it's just human nature to see it as unfair because it IS so big, important and complicated. I just think some of the judgment on this thread has gotten just a wee bit sanctimonious. We all have something judgment-worthy, this just happens to be financial.</p>
<p>I don't think she is getting shut out of colleges
[quote]
Our D is in at Emory with no aid; wait listed at Davidson
In at Fordham and Clemson with 20-50% merit aid
In at U of AL, Auburn, and U of K, all into their honors colleges, with full scholarship+
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's just that she didn't get aid from every single school to which she applied.
Oh well.</p>
<p>Tragedy, just a tragedy. She is well on the road to becoming a drug-addicted, homeless criminal.</p>
<p>tokenadult was nice enough to provide the following link.</p>
<p>Page 75 is relevant. Probably other pages too. </p>
<p>I agree with Zoosermom, for once. :)</p>
<p>Oh gosh. Now I am gonna cry. Silly me - I have had to scrimp and save and worry from paycheck to paycheck wondering how to get the last of my four kids through college - here ya go. He doesn't even need financial aid.
Maybe this is the first time in 18 years he will have to tell his daughter, "No, we can't afford it." What a shame. What a crying shame.</p>
<p>I am feeling nauseous.</p>
<p>Thank you, zoosermom and owlice, for saying you, too, feel overwhelmed by the whole FA process. I fear that I will go down in CC lore as a longtime reader/lurker who gets to the end and has still managed to royally mangle admissions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Another generation of spendthrifts will be rewarded for their bad habits by free school and access to power, where they can turn around and perpetuate the process all over again.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, to use the Op's term, this is the group that will be screwed when the school deems that they have the income and assets (home equity) to pay full freight and are not in the postion to do so while there was an expectation that they should have been saving for this day. </p>
<p>Remember the FAFSA and the profile doesn't care one bit that you have credit card debt, your car payments are $X, you filed bankrupcy or you owe $Y to the cheese of the month club.</p>
<p>Actually the OP is very blessed, because after all has been said and done he is in a postion to pay (whether or not he wants to is a different story) for his child choices. He can choose to pay full freight, he can fill in the gap at a school like Fordham, which does not meet 100% demonstrated need, or his D can take the full ride. The vast majority of families going through the college process do not have those choices.</p>
<p>I agree sybbie but what I'm finding out on this thread is that some seem not to believe in the need system we have at all. I think it's broken and needs to be fixed and I do plenty of raging against the machine but dang.... I have no desire to see kids saddled with loans because their parents were poor or just spendthrifts. Heck I have no desire to see the parents saddled with those debts and most of the spendthrifts won't qualify for them anyway. Debtor's prisons? I guess the legal adults whose parents were shiffless or spendthrifts (or diseased or dumb) are just SOL. Additionally, the idea that the system should require someone to be stripped of all possessions for their kid to get need based aid is just beyond my ability ...wait. No it's not . Unfortunately, it's not beyond my ability to see- "need" policy as automatic punishment for sin. Without regard to how a family got there. Seems fair. ;)</p>
<p>I save my anger for the schools who have devised these insane rules while sitting on socially inert billions received at least partially because of their no-tax status (and certainly grown that way. Hmmm. I'd be a better investor if I didn't have to pay taxes , too.;)) . They have to see that it favors W-2 wage-earners with big retirement plans , no home equity, every asset sheltered in a retirement plan (some self-directed). I have a friend who is making an offer this week on a property. Or should I say, his retirement plan is buying a ranch with gas production potential. Now there are restrictive rules he has to follow but folks - that's crazy stupid.</p>
<p>Bay, no one said the OP had mentioned the word "unfair." It has certainly come up in many posts on this thread, however. And I don't have to guess whether the OP feels bitter, as the OP has admitted it. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I urge all you other bitter, ****ed off middle class parents out there to rage against the machine, rise up against the system, and send your kids to State U and to hell with sending your kids to "elite" private schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm supposed to "rage against the machine, rise up against the system," because... what? One doesn't rage against fairness or justice, but rather unfairness and injustice. I'm just not seeing it here; as I said, I'm missing something. I'm happy to feel outraged (yeah, THERE'S a statement! :D) if there's something to feel outraged about, and I don't like unfairness, but ... I'm just not seeing it here. I'm apparently supposed to! So help me out, please!</p>
<p>zoosermom, I'm clueless in this, really. Just not seeing it. Not trying to be, and hope I'm not being, sanctimonious or judgemental. I'm puzzled!</p>
<p>Youdon'tsay, hey, I've got spreadsheets! I'm reading books! ("Paying for College Without Going Broke" at the moment. Got it from the library. It's missing pages 66-67, which is about retirement funds; there was in error in binding, as the book has two pages 64-65. Drat! I'll let the library know, and hope they get another copy, because I'd like to read pages 66-67!) I'm asking questions, asking for advice, taking notes, and creating flowcharts! I have only the one kid; I don't get to practice on the oldest and perfect the process with subsequent attempts!</p>
<p>The fun part will be trying to educate the exH, should he look as though he is going to participate in the college-funding thing. (No guarantees there, however.)</p>
<p>I guess my deal is we have so few assets and make so little money that I'm willing to believe, for now, that it doesn't matter what I do.</p>
<p>I'm still working on reach/match/safety schools, to xiggi or not to xiggi, investigating Questbridge/Gates ... and on and on and on. :)</p>
<p>Two families in our Mid-South neighborhood (both started their families/careers around 1990 with similar financial conditions):</p>
<p>Family A: One paycheck; Current earned income $95,000; Frugal life style; two cars (2002 Corolla & 2000 Camry); EFC is $90,000 due to the savings (& stock appreciation) over the past 15 years.</p>
<p>Family B: Two paychecks, Earned income $160,000, Upper-middle class life style; four cars (2007 Mazda 3, 2005 BMW, 2004 Lexus, & 2004 Caravan); EFC is $17,000. </p>
<p>If you emphasize the Ability to Pay, you would agree that Family A should pay a full freight to any college unless their kids receive merit money from the college. It is also understandable that, given the current FA system, Family B deserves $$ because there is not much money remaining (compared to Family A) to pay for college education. It appears that dstark (post #44) looks at more then just the Ability to Pay. </p>
<p>People always look at the same scenario/picture with different perspectives. Knowing their perspectives, I can understand why they have totally different opinions and I have no problem with that.</p>
<p>My two cents!</p>