[/quote]
Absolutely. The toughest area is probably the non-coustodial parent issue. We read of plenty of posters right here on CC who have married parents who refuse to pay a dime. If the parents were divorced & the non-custodial had the bucks, then the kid would likely get needed aid. The kid with cheapskate married parents still is denied opportunity. The middle class kid whose parents truly can't meet the EFC+gap for any number of reasons (not merely unwillingness) is also denied opportunity. Is any form of denial more hateful than another?</p>
<p>*Back in the late 70s, (Jimmy Carter misery index years,) parents used to have their kids take out student loans at a tiny interest rate to finance all kinds of home repairs, vacations, family cars. *</p>
<p>really?
I was attending community college and working and paying for it myself. I didn't even know that financial aid was available, and since I had been living on my own since I was 17, when my father died, I would have qualified for a lot I imagine. At least a subsidized loan. But it never even occurred to me to look. Even though it didn't take long for the stress of working fulltime- commuting to work, commuting to school where I was also attending full time to take it's toll and I dropped out of school and got a day job.</p>
<p>There are always going to be people who work the system from top to bottom, but that shouldn't interfere with making it work for those who don't break the rules.</p>
<p>zmom, some on my side (what side? LOL I mean the 5 folks who agree with my pro-need, pro-need grant, pro-merit, anti-profile , catch all cheaters philosophy) will part company with me (leaving me by my lonesome) , but I think it's legit to complain about the use of government funds. That's politics and we have a way to address that. ;) On that there can be debate but on private folks use of their private funds in a legal manner, I don't see how there can ever be a better way to vote against their FA philosophy then DON'T send your kid there. If U Of Richmond wants you to pay more so that they can give it to somebody else (maybe the redheaded twins) and you disagree, DON'T apply to the U of Richmond. But that's not what people are saying- they don't want anybody giving these kids grants. At all. They are not limiting it to federal or state money .</p>
<p>Yes cheats cheat, and that is the most insulting aspect/unfair part.My niece has a friend who got accepted to two IVY's, parents did not go to college, own a cash business that can easily hide income, this kid lives in a neighborhood that there is no way their income would be able to afford if their total EFC of 2K from those two IVY's was legit, full need met. good student but did get a pass on some scores being lower than the norm for the schools of acceptance.</p>
<p>"what side? LOL I mean the 5 folks who agree with my pro-need, pro-need grant, pro-merit, anti-profile , catch all cheaters philosophy) will part company with me (leaving me by my lonesome"</p>
<p>I actually agree with you Curm and wouldn't leave you out there by your lonesome, but I do think that the don't give any money people are few and far between, and I'm not sure three separate threads involving foaming at the mouth were warranted. But that's just my personality. I'm fond of venting and then picking up to go on and do what needs to be done.</p>
<p>The other thing is when the ex non custodial parent marries someone of means... DD's "stepmonster" inherited big $$ so DD gets no need based aid (from PROFILE schools)</p>
<p>cbk, send the FA office a picture of their house and cars. No accusations . Just the photos. ;) Maybe they can catch them. Aren't we supposed to call Aunt IRS if we suspect tax cheating? Why is this different?</p>
<p>4 threads if you count my call for reinforcements (more cats for the catfight) down in FA. ;) Edit: I only started 2. And the first was in response to taxguy's sequel. Keeping up with the Jones', you know. He had his own sitcom, I wanted one to. ;) Moving on up, to the east side. The second was the aforementioned call to more cats. </p>
<p>And if you are speaking of MY foam, that's not from my mouth. That is fire fighting foam from an extinguisher. As I said, my hair was on fire.</p>
<p>We have some neighbors (2 different families), whose children are both in expensive private colleges. Each of these families, who had not touched their homes since they moved in (20 years for one family, and 8 years for the other), suddenly had their homes nearly rebuilt (new roof, windows, siding, doors, etc.). One family had the entire interior gutted as well (new kitchen and baths, new floors, heating system-both homes got new heating systems, etc.). This all took place between sophomore and junior year of hs of their oldest kids. One did not get any FA (only merit aid) and there are 4 children in that household, but only one currently in college (they did apply for FA and I think they dumped their cash into home repair hoping for FA grants. After 2 years of tution bills, he is transferring to another fine school where he will get a discount since one parent just got a job there to lower costs). I have no idea whether the other family landed a FA package. I think fafsa forms should ask about home repairs done within the last 5 years. I understand normal maintenance. Rebuilding is more on the order of 2-4 new luxury cars. I was glad to see that one family definitely did not get FA, but I have no idea about the other family. I really do believe their home improvements were done with FA packages in mind. JMO.</p>
<p>Maybe accounts need to have a two year lookback. That would help some. The government does it (even longer) for nursing home folks to catch folks trying to take advantage. I'll go for that.</p>
<p>My husband had a business associate that made a deal with employer to work only 6 months of the year "on the books", the other half off when the oldest was a junior in HS. Several years ago now, but 3 kids thru on very little out of pocket. </p>
<p>They didn't pay much.
know another family, mom was a RN and she quit junior year, took some type of off the books work.
So law of averages, if I know personally of these, how many others are shafting the ones following the rules.</p>
[/quote]
Yes, and those schools are where most kids wind up. It's a huge loophole for most divorced families. On the other hand, the profile method is very tough for single moms divorced from deadbeat dads. While nobody wants to burden the child of a deadbeat dad, one has to consider that the financial aid pie is finite. If deadbeat dad doesn't pay his fair share, that means less for "my" kid. Or even the child of fully involved, generous divorced dad -- in the FAFSA world, his kid could be attending the finest pricey prep school, studying in Europe every summer, etc -- yet his kid could qualifiy for aid but "mine" doesn't. I understand the emotions & the need to vent, that's all I'm saying.</p>
<p>Curm, that is exactly what I was thinking, but more like 3 years. I understand home repairs are necessary and when one needs a new roof because water is leaking through the ceiling, they need it. If the hot water tank dies, it dies. Rebuiling an entire home, I think is gaming the system.</p>
<p>I could have easily manipulated my income to get aid - I never considered doing it though. Since you have to file each year, with several kids, you would have to manipulate the income for years and years. Even if I had the desire to do that, I'd just get sick of worrying about it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The government does it (even longer) for nursing home folks to catch folks trying to take advantage. I'll go for that.
[/quote]
Good point. Now the CPAs will be like ambulance chasing lawyers -- handing out their busines cards in the labor & delivery rooms.</p>
<p>I want to mention the emotional impact of these anecdotes again. While working in a free pediatric clinic, I remember an extremely entitled, nasty mom causing a ruckus. She had neglected to have her child vaccinated, even though these are free services. The kid was not being allowed to start kindergarten in the fall & she was angry that we couldn't just load the kid up with dozens of shots all at once. Furious, in fact. It seems the shot adinistration schedule that the docs had worked out for her kid conflicted with their DisneyWorld vacation plans! That certainly rankled the nurses who were working at the clinic as a second job to make ends meet.</p>
<p>Now, was this mom representative of all Medicaid families? Of course not. But her behavior & the egregious nature of her actions/failure to take care of her kids health needs/entitlement attitude/scamming of the system still stays with me year later. Everyone knows a scammer, and it's human nature to focus on the unfairness & perhaps assume the scam artists outnumber the honest folk..</p>
<p>I think that's where some people are. Absolutely. But some are just plain mean-spirited and selfish. Maybe we just assume they outnumber the reasonable folks, too. Could be.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, and those schools are where most kids wind up. It's a huge loophole for most divorced families. On the other hand, the profile method is very tough for single moms divorced from deadbeat dads.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You are correct. Divorced families learn how to play the "game".</p>