The more I learn, the less I know

<p>macnyc-
You have gotten some good advice here. I would suggest that your D. separate out her priorities into "gotta have" and "it would be nice if..". Sounds like the Japanese is a "gotta have". Which others are deal-breakers for her? Then have her list them in a hierarchy- highest to lowest priority. If I were you/her, I'd then do a little more web-browsing to find schools with excellent Japanese/East Asian Studies programs, and then start to whittle away from there. This may sound like a strange analogy, but you might want to consider approaching it like you were purchasing real estate - What must you have, and what would you like to have. As you know by reading as much as you have on CC, it may not be about a "perfect" fit, but a "good" fit. </p>

<p>I am pleasantly surprised that even with all the criteria you have, many schools have been suggested that might fit. Have you looked yet at the schools mentioned above? The other good news is that even if you want to stay in the geographical NE, there are plenty to choose from. Lastly, I had a similar pattern with my s a few years back. He didnt have as long a list of preferences, but he did set his sites high wrt what he wanted in a school. We looked at 13 schools. We felt like the 3 bears for quite a while (this one's too big.. this one's too small.. etc) but finally he found one that felt "just right". Also, in the process, some of the things that began as a "gotta have" slid down to the "I'd prefer it, but I'll be open-minded.." (this was specifically wrt not wanting a language requirement). Is your d a senior? </p>

<p>Lastly, the Fiske Guide and the "insiders Guide to colleges" might also be helpful, if you havent looked at them. Good luck!</p>

<p>You know, if she's leaving out the West Coast, she's leaving out some of the best, if not THE best, East Asian language/studies programs in the country. Why would she want to do that?</p>

<p>I agree - it's like wanting to study Navajo but not wanting to live in the southwest... kids!</p>

<p>Too many choices. No wonder she can't make up her mind.</p>

<p>The world of 2500 colleges is too big for any 18 year old. Put some limits on yourself, either by distance, cost, etc. The people I know who have traveled to twenty or thirty colleges, trying to find the perfect fit for Junior, have mostly driven themselves crazy, more than anything else.</p>

<p>Allmusic-
Holy crow! People visit 20-30 colleges with a junior?!? People can drown in too much inforamtion. As for the OP, seems like staying in the E. is a higher priority than having what might be the "best" Japanese/East asian studies program. Maybe she'll rethink this if the geography issue takes a lower place on the priority list.</p>

<p>I think that the concept of "fit" can be taken to an extreme. Some kids seem to think a college has to be perfect in order to be a good choice. It really just has to be "good enough."</p>

<p>We visited about 7 or 8 colleges with DS1, but it didn't help much -- he seemed to like every school he visited. I suppose it would have been much harder if he hadn't liked any of them. :eek:</p>

<p>Macnyc: Re your D's desire for a campus culture that is not "1) preppy 2) hippie 3) druggy 4) boozer or 5) fratty," I believe that the dominant cultures of most schools have at least one of the above elements. Sometimes these reputations are richly earned, and sometimes they're at least part myth. If your D insists on eliminating all schools that have any of those elements, though, she will have a list of zero schools, as she’s discovering. But most schools, especially those that have more than 2000 kids (your D's threshold) also have a variety of subcultures that are outside the dominant one. Even if the dominant culture is not to her liking, is your D comfortable with the idea of finding her niche in a subgroup? If so, she should try to look behind the stereotypes to try to find sub-communities where she would be comfortable.</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone for weighing in. I see how I went astray! I also need to keep my big mouth shut when talking to D and let her make up her own mind.</p>

<p>D is a good student whose scores and grades make her pretty competitive for schools ranked No. 20 and below. Not that I put much stake in rankings. It's just that D isn't going to get into Ivies and near-Ivies. We're realistic. She's NMSF though, for whatever that's worth.</p>

<p>It's reasonable to confine her search, as others have expressed, to schools that offer Japanese to the advanced level. Also, D is a city kid and doesn't want to be "in the middle of nowhere," thus leaving out otherwise excellent schools like Middlebury. As far as geography, she and I have always been more comfortable with her staying closer to home, but maybe it's time to reevaluate that.</p>

<p>Her list of colleges, subject to change, arranged roughly reaches to safeties:</p>

<p>College of William and Mary
Vassar
University of Rochester (with merit money)
University of Maryland (maybe honors college?)
Dickinson
Arizona State Barrett Honors College (full-tuition scholarship)
SUNY Albany (in-state; the only SUNY to have Japanese major; D doesn't really want to go here)</p>

<p>Thinking of adding Brandeis (reach, but a realistic one)
University of Wisconsin (far away, but good for Japanese)
University of Pittsburgh (maybe honors program)
Northwestern (reach)</p>

<p>My advice is to consider colleges/program where there is an established link to a university/college in Japan so that your D can take a meaningful a year abroad in Japan. Such linked programs do exist. For example, Amherst Collge (I know it does not fit your D's other preferences but it is a college that I have come to know a bit more) has a sister University in Japan (founded by an Amherst graduate), and there is a well-established program for such exchanges, including extra financial aid. I am certain that a bit of research will find colleges that fit your D's other preferences better.</p>

<p>Otherwise, the really good Japanese programs are geared more or less toward graduate studies, and that is not necessarily best for an undergraduate. </p>

<p>Just read your updated post after I posted. You probably could contact Vassar, or other colleges on your list, directly to address how much experience the college has with students taking a year in Japan.</p>

<p>"We visited about 7 or 8 colleges with DS1, but it didn't help much -- he seemed to like every school he visited. I suppose it would have been much harder if he hadn't liked any of them."</p>

<p>We had much the same experience. My son swears he'll be happy anywhere as long as the computer science department is good. I believe him.</p>

<p>My younger son on the other just loved Caltech. He thinks it's the perfect school. Only one problem - he doesn't like science or math! Luckily we've got a few years to find some Caltech like schools for non science kids.</p>

<p>I've just googled Colleges offering Japanese and College Search returned 64 names.</p>

<p>Well, maybe you'll find this helpful. Since I recently went through the same search about Japanese departments, here are a few schools I evaluated. It's not a comprehensive list, and most of the comments on culture and all the rankings (I think) are taken from princetonreview.com. So, take the comments for what they're worth. This is part 1. I'll have to post in at least two parts to get under character limits.</p>

<p>BATES</p>

<p>The Major: Majors in Asian Studies, East Asian Studies, Chinese, and Japanese. 15 faculty. International study available.</p>

<p>General: Students like it very much. No Greek system. No hierarchy and easy to make friends in different groups. One person said he’d never met a cruel person there. Students actively participate in college-wide decisions, including faculty hiring. It’s a drinking school, but drinking not necessary. Very outdoorsy. Town/gown relations may be a bit strained.</p>

<p>BROWN</p>

<p>The Major: East Asian Studies, Chinese studies, Japanese studies majors with 23 faculty. </p>

<p>General: Liberal campus where students say everyone is truly an individual. Conservatives aren’t so sure. No general academic requirements. Focus on teaching. Ivy League but laid back. Big into cultural activities but not athletics. Politically active. Very connected to the community, with trolley service to downtown.</p>

<p>CLAREMONT MCKENNA:</p>

<p>The Major: Taken through the five-college consortium. 22 faculty. </p>

<p>General: Students driven and focused. They work hard and don’t skip classes. Student body is mainstream and more conservative than most. Economics, accounting, and government are strong suits. Claremont is considered “boring.” </p>

<p>Other: Ranked #18 for professors being accessible. #6 for school running like butter. #1 for students being happy with financial aid. #1 for most politically active. #7 for dorms like palaces.</p>

<p>COLUMBIA</p>

<p>The Major: I counted 70 faculty for East Asian Languages and Cultures. It’s a big program and obviously a good one.</p>

<p>General: Students love being in NY. There are a lot of students from the city. Very liberal. “The two Republicans who attend the school are burned in effigy fairly frequently.” Very NY flavor, apparently. On the go. Not polite. Aggressive. What you’d expect, I guess. Atmosphere is sink or swim. Core curriculum. "You will not have a laid-back, happy-go-lucky type of life at Columbia. Instead of spending your time on sculptured lawns with faculty mapping out the way to go, you will get on a crowded subway, push your way into a door, step over a homeless person, and even if you get tired, you won't be able to rest. Some may think this kind of college experience is terrible. Columbia students are those who think it's the only way to go." Entertainment is NY, itself.</p>

<p>CONNECTICUT COLLEGE</p>

<p>The Major: East Asian Languages and Cultures major. 11 faculty. Both Japanese and Chinese available. Study abroad is encouraged and covered by CC tuition, apparently. First EA department on East Coast.</p>

<p>General: The stereotypical Conn student grew up "just outside Boston" (or somewhere else in New England, New Jersery, or New York) "helps to "keep J. Crew in business," "gets Tiffany's for Christmas," and "drives a Volkswagen with a ski rack on top." Substantial international population. Comfortable, caring environment. Personal attention from professors. Students feel pretty pampered in their playground for trust fund babies. Amazing student theater productions.</p>

<p>DARTMOUTH</p>

<p>The Major: Asian and Middle Eastern Language and Literatures. 8 faculty in Chinese and Japanese languages. There’s an Asian Studies center, library, and the like.</p>

<p>General: "The average Dartmouth student is usually too bundled up in warm clothes to distinguish them from everyone else," undergraduates clarify. However, "once you get past the ten layers of clothing that everyone wears, Dartmouth students are a bunch of extraordinarily bright, sexually charged, procrastinating, sensitive comedians who go out of their way to make you feel like the most important person in the world." Politically active on both the conservative and liberal side. Many fewer graduate students than at the other Ivies. Professors tend to be good teachers. Easy to get internships. Greeks are big, but students tend to like them. Seems like a generally friendly environment.</p>

<p>Other: #9 best quality of life. #6 great campus food. #5 happy students. #15 major frat and sorority scene.</p>

<p>HAVERFORD</p>

<p>The Major: Bi-college, including professors at Swarthmore. Four years of instruction in both Japanese and Chinese. 10 faculty, including some at Bryn Mawr. </p>

<p>General: Apparently, they cooperate a great deal with Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore colleges. One student says, "the typical student is a cool dork: someone with really funky interests and life experiences who loves sharing and learning, even if s/he's not amazing at performing or shmoozing a crowd." Liberal. High pressure classes, but students and professors are cooperative. They have an honor code that, apparently, works. Students pretty much work during the week.</p>

<p>Other: #6 best overall academic experience for undergrads, #15 for students never stop studying, #16 for school runs like butter, #15 for best quality of life.</p>

<p>KENYON</p>

<p>The Major: There are 11 faculty on the Asian Studies speciality list. The only East Asian language offered is Japanese. It’s possible to major in Japanese, but you’ll have to do an independent study after you take and pass advanced Japanese. It’s by special arrangement, only.</p>

<p>General: “Permeated with genuine Ohio niceness.” Students tend to be balanced, liberal, and perhaps not quite as wealthy as student at many other top liberal arts colleges. Classes are hard, but professors are genuinely ready to help. There are also free tutors, apparently, and volunteers who are ready to help. Small town, so the campus community tends to be tightly knit.</p>

<p>Other: #20 professors bring material to life, #20 professors make themselves accessible, #13 beautiful campus.</p>

<p>NORTHWESTERN</p>

<p>The Major: Asian and Middle East Studies. 39 faculty. Four years of Japanese but only three of Chinese. After three years of Chinese, the student is expected to be able to read literary works by modern authors. It doesn’t appear that learning to speak Chinese is part of the curriculum, but you can probably design your own course structure for that. </p>

<p>General: "One-third of the kids never leave their dorm rooms, one-third of the kids only leave their dorms to do extracurricular stuff like plays or journalism, and the last one-third are depressed because they wish they had gone to a state school with their friends where there's actually a party scene," writes one undergraduate. Students at prestigious Northwestern University love that their school is "one of the most academically rigorous in the country, but without the pompousness and cutthroat competitiveness of all those East Coast institutions." Northwestern's specialized schools are its crown jewels. The theater programs "allow a full liberal-arts experience with conservatory-level training." </p>

<p>Other: #20 great college newspaper, #20 great college theater, #12 town gown relations are strained.</p>

<p>Here's part 2.</p>

<p>OBERLIN</p>

<p>The Major: East Asian Studies is the oldest interdisciplinary program at Oberlin. There is an Asia House. Chinese language tables at meals. 15 faculty. Requires capstone project. Members of Kyoto program. There appear to be only three years of Chinese available, but I could be wrong about that. There are definitely four years of Japanese. The list of related courses is very impressive.</p>

<p>General: Generally liberal school. Apparently, speaking out is a good thing there. The school uses "interactive discussions, passionate teachers, and stimulating material" in its efforts to "turn students' minds into filters, so they learn to criticize the world." The process begins as soon as undergraduates arrive via the recently instituted freshman seminar program. Students also report favorably on the school's Winter Term— "a great opportunity to get an internship, take on a personal project, or get involved in the community"—and the Experimental College, "which allows you to get credit for a wide variety of student-taught subjects, ranging from karate to Korean." Studying is a big deal. So is partying.</p>

<p>Other: #10 great college library, #16 gay community accepted, #19 great college radio station, #12 great college theater, #17 intercollegiate sports unpopular, #11 reefer madness, #18 most politically active, #13 students most nostalgic for Bill Clinton, #15 dodge ball targets.</p>

<p>PITZER</p>

<p>The Major: You build your own and go through Pomona and Claremont McKenna.</p>

<p>General: Though "it was once said that Pitzer was a school of aging hippies," today you're just as likely to see a student who looks like he just "walked out of a J. Crew catalog" as you are to see a student with a tie-dyed shirt and Birkenstocks. "They tend not to tolerate political views to the right of Lenin," one freshman observes of his classmates. Students here are, on the whole, "ridiculously friendly." Because professors at this "small, liberal, socially aware" college "are actively interested in their students," a student at Pitzer can garner an education that is "a fun, creative, and enriching experience." Don’t seem to like their administration all that much. Dorms are a bit shabby.</p>

<p>Other: #6 lots of race/class interaction, #12 students ignore God on a regular basis, #13 reefer madness, #20 students most nostalgic for Bill Clinton, #14 Birkenstock-wearing, tree-hugging, clove-smoking vegetarians.</p>

<p>POMONA</p>

<p>The Major: See Claremont Mckenna and Pitzer</p>

<p>General: Pomona students boast they're "some of the easiest people to get along with." This is a West Coast school at its best, without any of "the East Coast high-strung mentality." When students at Pomona say their "professors are really interesting, interested, and accessible," they really mean it. Remarks one student, "I had dinner with the dean last night, I received a personal e-mail from two profs in the last 24 hours, and my history prof wrote more about my paper than I did." "People at Pomona amaze me," waxes one sophomore. "They can drink more than humanly possible Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then ace their organic chem final that Friday." All the Claremont college students have bad things to say about the town. </p>

<p>Other: #7 school runs like butter, #6 students happy with financial aid, #17 best quality of life, #11 dorms like palaces, #1 happy students.</p>

<p>SARAH LAWRENCE</p>

<p>The Major: Only three faculty members. Japanese is offered only through the end of the second year (intermediate Japanese). There is no Chinese that I could see.</p>

<p>General: “Hard to create a community from a lot of individuals. The college "focuses so much on individualism" that "no one remembers to stop and say 'hello.’” Extremely liberal. No tests, no core requirements, no majors. Many, many papers. Most classes are seminars and you meet with the teacher at least once every two weeks. Seems a bit British, that way. Every student has a personal faculty advisor. Trendy. A lot of going into NYC.</p>

<p>Other: #9 best overall academic experience, #5 class discussions encouraged, #11 professors bring material to life, #3 gay community accepted, #8 students ignore God on a regular basis, #7 great college theater, #10 intercollegiate sports unpopular or nonexistent, #4 nobody plays intramural sports, #4 most politically active, #3 students are nostalgic for Bill Clinton, #3 dodge ball targets, #2 town gown relations are strained. </p>

<p>STANFORD</p>

<p>The Major: The faculty is huge and distinguished. No need to count them. If you run out of undergrad Chinese and Japanese courses, you can take grad ones. This is clearly a top progam.</p>

<p>General: "I get the feeling that everyone here is really intelligent and driven, but for some reason, pretending not to be," writes one astute undergrad. The result is a campus of "closet studiers" who act like ducks on a pond: "serene on top, pedaling like crazy below." "Though it is easy to meet people from different backgrounds, there is a certain tendency to form cliques. One must actively set out to interact in order to make the most of this diversity." Stanford will particularly appeal to those looking for a serious school that "doesn't take itself too seriously," as illustrated by a freshman who recounts, "My intro to psych prof spent the last day of class lip synching to The Wiz and dancing around in cowboy boots, and giving everyone in the class hugs as they left from the final.</p>

<p>Other: #8 great college library, #15 school runs like butter, #19 diverse student population, #14 lots of race/class interaction, #5 best quality of life, #3 happy students.</p>

<p>TUFTS</p>

<p>The Major: 16 faculty members. It appears that you can go as far as you want in Chinese and Japanese languages. Tufts also has a top international relations department. Lots of courses. It seems pretty rigorous.</p>

<p>General: Students say, "The presence of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy on campus means that not only are classes available to advanced students but [also] important people in the international relations field often come for lectures." Unlike many Ivies, Tufts focuses on its undergraduates; "TAs only teach labs and study groups, while professors teach the actual classes." This "small-college" vibe extends right up to the top; the school's president "makes it a priority to be personally involved with students. Living right on campus, he is an advisor to undergraduates, has kids at his house for dinner or to go running, and is always available for appointments." "I love Tufts because I love being around intelligent people and being able to have an intellectual discussion, to go to a class and then spend a couple hours talking about the subjects, whether philosophy or international relations, with my friends. I'm just as happy staying in as going out."</p>

<p>Other: #14 great campus food.</p>

<p>UNVIVERSITY OF CHICAGO</p>

<p>The Major: East Asian Languages and Civilization. The faculty is huge. It looks as though you can go as far as you want in Japanese and Chinese.</p>

<p>General: Typically "wonkish, nerdy, cloistered, extremely studious, and religiously dedicated to academic performance," Chicago students are "brilliant, on par with those at any other school, but not the kind of people that you want to have a casual conversation with." That is somewhat attributed to "personal hygiene and social skills [which] are sometimes lacking," and partly because "we ask seemingly strange questions. This is only because, after a few years at Chicago, we only see questions in terms of 'useful' or 'useless.' Strange questions are often the most useful, and we eventually forget that normal people avoid asking the strange questions." The school has attempted to recruit beyond its nerdish base, bringing in more students of the frat boy/jock variety. Most agree the efforts are counterproductive. One student writes, "Chicago has a reputation for its antisocial, elitist student body, but when it tries to change this reputation, it just erodes the reason for its greatness." While the workload can be "hard to the point that people cry after chemistry or math finals [and] a returned paper with high praise is about as rare as a total solar eclipse," few students would trade down for a less demanding school. The school puts students through their paces from day one, challenging them with a broad core curriculum that "is often taught by top professors," including Nobel laureates. One student wraps it up, saying, "If you are seriously academic and don't mind cold winters, Chicago is the best place in the world." "The University offers lectures by Nobel laureates and renowned political figures, film screenings, and SCAV HUNT, in which students spend 3 days without food or sleep trying to do things like build a nuclear reactor or acquire a NASA-certified piece of the Columbia shuttle." </p>

<p>Other: #1 best overall academic experience for undergrads, #5 great college library, #18 intercollegiate sports unpopular or nonexistent, #19 most politically active.</p>

<p>Here's part 3.</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON</p>

<p>The Major: Huge faculty. Lots of resources. Top program. You get the picture.</p>

<p>General: "My fellow peers are generally open-minded, fun-loving people. The college kids in Seattle are a diverse group that comes from all over as well as from Washington, so it creates a nice atmosphere." Students warn that "because the school is so large, it is hard to interact with a lot of people." "For approximately half of the class time the lectures are broken into small class-sized discussion groups. It's a wonderful system." Seattle. Seattle. Seattle. What more is there to say?</p>

<p>Other: #19 best bargains, public.</p>

<p>VASSAR </p>

<p>The Major: 17 faculty plus a separate department in Chinese and Japanese. It appears that you can go as far as you like with both languages through independent study. Study abroad is encouraged, though I could not find out much about how it’s paid for (through college tuition or otherwise).</p>

<p>General: The most common opinion regarding the undergraduate population of Vassar goes something like, "An atypical student here is the sort who would be a _typical student elsewhere." In a place where students "conform by not conforming," the climate remains "very accepting of individuality," prompting one student to describe her peers as "tolerant, almost to the point of apathy." Students say that Vassar's goal is "teaching students to think," and that the college achieves this end by affording undergraduates a high degree of academic freedom. Most students "love that we have no core curriculum," leaving them time to pursue their "genuine interests." Though the "workload is very challenging," students feel supported by their "impressive, friendly, empathetic," and "very encouraging" professors. In their fairly isolated location in the Hudson Valley, most students feel "restricted to on-campus activities." Luckily, "on any given Friday, there's usually a concert, lecture, play, and comedy performance." Surveys repeatedly praise the beautiful campus, the perfect surroundings in which to pursue Vassar students' favorite pastime of all: "finding yourself."</p>

<p>Other: #11 students ignore God on a regular basis, #10 great college theater, #12 reefer madness, #10 student most nostalgic for Bill Clinton, #11 Birkenstock wearing, tree-hugging, clove smoking vegetarians, #10 more to do on campus, #8 town-gown relations are strained.</p>

<p>WASHINGTON U IN ST. LOUIS</p>

<p>The Major: 24 faculty in East Asian Studies, but there’s also an Asian Languages and Literature Department. It’s big. It’s comprehensive.</p>

<p>General: Washington University students consider themselves Ivy League students without the Ivy League tags. But there's also a downfall to studying at such a "large research institution," a number of professors "are preoccupied with becoming stars in their fields" and consequently devote minimal time to students. But this isn't the norm. Because many of the professors are leaders in their fields, they hold high expectations for their students. "The school is really really really tough," reports an undergraduate. "You must work very hard and put a lot of time into what you are doing," writes another. 1 in 10 undergrads go to med school. There's a motto religiously intoned at Wash U: "Study hard first, then play hard."</p>

<p>WILLAMETTE</p>

<p>The Major: Nine faculty. You can major in Japanese and there are some Chinese courses, but not enough to get a major. Study abroad is at Tokyo International University.</p>

<p>General: The hefty price tag attached to a Willamette education means that "the typical student has lots of money and worries about whether or not they have the latest clothing or enough extracurriculars to make an impression. Atypical students are plentiful, and they tend to all socialize amongst each other." "The majority of Willamette students are strongly conservative, but there is a rampant liberal underground." Asian students make up the largest minority in the student body; "there are many Japanese students because Willamette is associated with the Tokyo International University Academy (TIUA)," explains one undergrad. The professors, "brilliant individuals who are at the same time laid-back and humorous," administer an academic regimen that "can be very rigorous, depending on your course load for the semester." Those who fall behind find that "there is a lot of one-on-one advising that clears up any confusion that a student might be experiencing in a class." About one-third of the Willamette student body belongs to a fraternity or sorority. It is no wonder, then, that "the Greek system seems to be the nucleus of the social life, at WU.</p>

<p>WILLIAMS</p>

<p>The Major: Somewhere between 17 and 23 faculty, depending on how you count. Comprehensive courses in Chinese and Japanese. You can go as far as you want. There is an endowment for summer study abroad. Seems like a good department.</p>

<p>General: The typical Williams student is described as "preppy and athletic," as well as "incredibly driven, even when they pretend to be slackers." One student comments, "Everyone is friendly and down-to-earth, not to mention enormously talented at something." In terms of diversity, some note "a polarization of the campus—at one end the minorities and at the other the mainly white jock population." With only 2,000 undergraduates and no core curriculum, Williams College offers a supportive and idyllic "boot camp for your brain." Professors reportedly "love meeting with us individually" and are personable enough to "let you dog-sit and drive their cars." Study abroad is widely encouraged at Williams: "They provide lots of grants and fellowships for summer and winter research or travels." Sports are a big deal at Williams, with 40 percent of students participating in varsity athletics. "At Williams people are very proud of our athletes, so we go to support them often." The dictum "drinking is a way of life" is backed by the administration's attitude of being "concerned with students' health and safety rather than busting people for alcohol." </p>

<p>Other: #13, best overall academic experience, #4 school runs like butter, #5 everyone plays intramural sports, #7 students pack the stadiums, #3 beautiful campus, #13 dorms like palaces.</p>

<p>Macnyc: I also was going to say "Claremont-McKenna is worth checking out".</p>

<p>Yes, Claremont is a boring town, but many students go to LA or elsewhere on the coast for rec. Claremont-McKenna is part of a five-college consortium located on a single campus with undergrad student body totaling about 5000.</p>

<p>"She wants to major in Japanese or at least have Japanese available through the advanced level. Right there, that weeds out quite a few colleges. Then, the list gets further refined: NO schools that are 1) preppy 2) hippie 3) druggy 4) boozer 5) fratty 6) less than 2,000 student body 7) more than 15,000 student body 8) in the West 9) in the Midwest 10) in the South 11) too party-hearty 12) too intellectual."</p>

<p>My d. attends a school that meets 11 1/2 of the 12 characteristics. It is not preppy, hippie, druggy, boozer, fratty, less than 2,000, more than 15,000, in the west, in the midwest, in the south, too party-hearty. Whether it is too intellectual is a matter that could be debated. </p>

<p>Smith.</p>

<p>And there is the entire East Asian langauge faculty of the Five Colleges.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.smith.edu/fcceas/home.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/fcceas/home.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Twinmom, that undergraduate enrollment number for University of Pittsburgh would be for the freshman class.</p>

<p>Twinmom and hoosiermom, I think that undergraduate enrollment number for Pitt is the number of bachelor's degrees conferred last year. The freshman class admitted is about 4,000, maybe more.</p>

<p>The University of Maryland is HUGE. However, your daughter's interest in Japanese would give her a special niche on campus, and that might be enough to make her comfortable. There is a definite boozy/fratty element, but in a place as large as Maryland, there are also plenty of other subcultures. The honors program is nice, but her SATs (CR + M) would need to be well over 1400 for her to be likely to be considered.</p>

<p>I'm embarrassed to be constantly plugging my alma mater, but how about Cornell as a possible reach school? Asian Studies there is very good. Plenty of Japanese courses. A student with the kind of credentials that would allow her to consider Northwestern would be a reasonable candidate for Cornell as well. There's a fratty/boozy element on campus, but there are plenty of other types as well. Also, because the majority of the students are not in liberal arts (Cornell is the only Ivy where this is the case), the atmosphere may not be excessively intellectual, although students definitely work hard.</p>

<p>Mac,</p>

<p>Advanced Japanese was important for my daughter during her search last year. She ended up at Smith, which IS more than 2000 (barely) but which might be too progressive for your daughter. (It's definitely NOT preppy, although there are preppy types on campus.) </p>

<p>As we discovered, not all Japanese is created equal. She had studied Japanese at Lehigh through the end of intermediate Japanese, only to discover that, at Smith, the academics were much stronger, and she had to start over in the first semester of intermediate. If she had continued in a program like Lehigh's, then she would not be getting the same language education.</p>

<p>Her first choice was Brown, but she didn't get in. She sat in on a Japanese class there and thought it was challenging but not intimidating. She has friends studying Japanese at Wellesley, UPenn, UChicago, Bucknell, and Pitt, so I know they have programs as well, although I can't say how good they are. Beware of Haverford/Bryn Mawr because many of their advanced Japanese classes haven't been held for at least two years.</p>

<p>Other schools to consider: Dartmouth, Princeton, Stanford (the big reaches for everyone), Dickinson, Amherst.</p>