<p>The data provided by Cal’s career center is horrible. Cal is one of the most effective universities in the nation at placing students into top graduate schools. According to JHU medical school, there are currently 17 Cal alums enrolled in its Medical program. Only JHU, Yale, Harvard and Stanford have more. Michigan Medical school currently has 20 Cal alums enrolled in its program. I would hate to see how many Cal alums are enrolled at Stanford, UCLA and UCSF medical schools, but it probably runs at 100 or so at any point in time.</p>
<p>bookmarked.</p>
<p>drax:</p>
<p>you raised most of the salient points in post #57. Besides economics another factor is being ‘close to home’; while not what I would recommend it personally, Calif has a huge segment of the population whose families refuse to let them leave home. I know one local student who was accepted to a couple of top 20 med schools, one with significant $$, but will go to Irvine instead due to pressure from the 'rents.</p>
<p>But cost has to be huge for OOS med applicants. Quite frankly, I know many kids who would take ANY UC med over Columbia, for example. And East Bawlamer is not exactly a college-town!</p>
<p>But I have no input as whether the numbers get better or worse. With only 1/7th of the ‘precincts’ reporting, the ‘data’ is useless as far as I’m concerned. Add in another 150+ who are only one year-out, and it is still less than half of the applicants. Add in the fact that some/many? Cal-Engineers also apply to med school…and as MIT’s data clearly shows, being an Engineer is a detriment to your app. Thus, Cal-Eng types could bring down the overall numbers.</p>
<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/2009seniors.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/2009seniors.stm</a></p>
<p>Alexandre: the data is the only thing that they have; it is all self-reported. Advising sucks, so no one uses Career Services unless they have to look for a real job.</p>
<p>UCSD has data on its med-school applicants also. The administrators there incorporate data from the aamc site and do a better job of detailing where more of their grads go to med school. Their numbers support the fact taht most of their grads would be attending oos med schools, so I’m guessing that most of Cal’s and UCLA’s would be also. </p>
<p>I understand that most UC students would put UC’s 5 med schools at the top of their lists including against the country’s absolute best, and add the other 3 private ones, USC, Stanford, Loma Linda to the list for being in CA…but most will be attending oos, most have to be attending oos if they want to be MDs. In this case, the parents would have to let them go, probably begrudgingly.</p>
<p>Alexandre, Michigan Law School is definitely one of the very best and most prestigious in the world. I would argue that it has a rich national, as well as, international appeal. I’m very intrigued which undergrad schools comprise their student body the most. Can you post the school’s data? I’m sure everyone here would be thrilled to see the data too.</p>
<p>@ Drax12: UCLA Med School is a leading global med school with brilliant student bodies, or some of the most extremely talented premeds anywhere on earth!!! (I personally think USNews underrated it.) Please post data of the school, if you have them. Thanks.</p>
<p>BTW, I would just want to clear up what I previously said about Vanderbilt Med. I never meant to disparage its great name. I never meant it to be a mediocre med school. In fact I said, “it’s a great medical school”. And, it is. But let’s be honest. When a California premed is admitted to both Vanderbilt Med and UCLA Med, for example, I doubt it very much if that Cali premed would take the Vanderbilt Med offer. Unless the offer from Vanderbilt Med comes with some cash and huge scholarship offer, any Cali premed would rather take the UCLA Med offer. </p>
<p>The only East/Midwest med schools I believe that have a truly national appeal are:
Harvard
JHU
Yale
Columbia
Michigan
Chicago
Northwestern
Penn
Duke</p>
<p>and to a lesser extent:
Brown
Washington @StL
Cornell
Dartmouth</p>
<p>Michigan Law School does not publish exact numbers for Law school matriculants, only ranges, such as 100+, 30-99, 20-29, 10-19 etc… </p>
<p>Each year, out of a class of 350-400 1st year incoming University of Michigan Law students, 40-60 will be Michigan alums. </p>
<p>After Michigan alums, the most represented universities at Michigan Law are Cornell and Yale.</p>
<p>Next are Cal, Dartmouth, Duke, Harvard, Michigan State, Northwestern and Penn.</p>
<p>[faq-charts[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Unlike Cal, Michigan’s career office publishes relatively complete stats on its students’ placement into Law school. Annually, roughly 110-130 Michigan alums enroll into N14 Law schools. Other than Michigan Law School, other popular destinations include Harvard Law School, Columbia Law School, Georgetown Law School, Chicago Law School, NYU Law School and Northwestern Law School.</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/advising/advisor/prelaw/um_stats]College”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/advising/advisor/prelaw/um_stats]College</a> of Literature, Science, and the Arts : Students](<a href=“Admissions | University of Michigan Law School”>Admissions | University of Michigan Law School)</p>
<p>Michigan Medical School is also considered one of the top 10 in the nation, and just like Michigan Law, roughly 50 Michigan alums enroll into Michigan Medical school annually. That is impressive here is that Michigan Medical School only takes in 170 1st year students, so 50 represents a very significant number.</p>
<p>[University</a> of Michigan Medical School :: Admissions :: Interview Day](<a href=“http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/apply/profiles.html]University”>http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/apply/profiles.html)</p>
<p>[University</a> of Michigan Medical School :: Admissions :: Interview Day](<a href=“http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/apply/profiles/profiles_2009.html]University”>University of Michigan Medical School :: Admissions :: Interview Day)</p>
<p>[University</a> of Michigan Medical School :: Admissions :: Interview Day](<a href=“http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/apply/profiles/profiles_2008.html]University”>University of Michigan Medical School :: Admissions :: Interview Day)</p>
<p>So roughly 100 Michigan alums enroll into Michigan Law and Medical Medical annually. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, Michigan does not seem to publish data for placement into other Medical schools</p>
<p>I have not seen placement data of Michigan alums into Business and Engineering programs, but I know Michigan sends 50 or so alums to Ross MBA annually and another 10-20 alums to HBS, Kellogg and Wharton.</p>
<p>As a percentage of its undergraduate student population, Michigan places roughly as many alums into top graduate programs than all but perhaps a handful of universities (not including LACs). This is impressive considering the fact that Michigan is structured in a way that does not produce as large a ratio of students applying to Law and Medical school. Other universities in a similar position to Michigan that also do very well with graduate school placement are Cal, Cornell, MIT and Northwestern.</p>
<p>RML, WUSTL and Cornell medical schools definitely have national (if not global) appeal that match programs such as Columbia, Duke, Michigan and Penn.</p>
<p>^ Yeah, that’s why they’re both in my list on post #66.</p>
<p>Thanks for your post, btw. :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is The RML School of Medicine associated with Princeton’s SoM? :D</p>
<p>^ like. I’m sorry for bumping this btw, but I did think it was interesting. I don’t know about other types of graduate schools, but from what I’ve seen I think we can take law schools at their word that your undergraduate institution matters much, much less than your GPA and LSAT.</p>
<p>^^yes, you can find out all you need about LS on the cc thread concerning the same topic.</p>
<p>
This is one of the most false and absurd statements I’ve read on this site. First off, Cal supposedly has more top SAT scorers on an absolute level than any other school in the nation, even more than Harvard College, as a result of its sheer size and status as the preeminent state school. And yet, its placement rates are atrocious on a per capita basis and merely decent on an absolute basis. Schools like Brown, Duke and Princeton do as well on an absolute basis as Cal despite the fact that Cal has maybe 2-3x top students enrolled as a result of its size. These private schools are about 5 times smaller than Berkeley.</p>
<p>UCB clearly shortchanges its brilliant undergrads compared to the elite schools. There’s no comparison at all really. Cal should have as many undergrads enrolled in JHU Med as Harvard does but it doesn’t and that’s not due to a lack of brilliant students. Its due to terrible advising, a complex bureaucracy that undergrads have to wade and meager financial resources at the undergrad level. Its endowment is pathetic considering its supposed prestige.</p>
<p>
According to the link you provided, the most popular destinations for Michigan Alums after Michigan Law is as follows in order:</p>
<ol>
<li>Thomas M Cooley</li>
<li>Wayne State</li>
<li>Michigan State</li>
<li>Brooklyn</li>
<li>DePaul</li>
<li>John Marshall</li>
<li>Detroit Mercy</li>
<li>Loyola</li>
<li>NYU </li>
<li>Fordham</li>
</ol>
<p>Wow, this is quite the list of top schools. Lets all pack our bags and head to Ann Arbor for undergrad!!!:rolleyes:</p>
<p>^^^^This is not surprising at all since most Michigan alums are from the state of Michigan. There is also a huge contingent of alums from the NYC area as well as Chicago.</p>
<p>LDB, that paragraph was referring to matriculations among N14 Law schools, not all matriculations. As always, your respectful tone and sense of fair play is a pleasure to behold.</p>
<p>les, 95%, maybe even 98% of Cal students won’t get into Harvard undergrad. What’s the use of citing it as an example? And while Harvard has only 2,500 graduates per year, it awards many more students with a 3.7/3.8 GPA than Cal does, despite Cal’s size. Cal is notorious with regards to grades. Over 90% of Harvard grads have academic honors. I doubt if Cal produces 1k honor grads every year. </p>
<p>While I agree that advising at undergrad helps in postgrad application processes, it does not bolster one’s application. Advising is just a guide on the route one should take. It helps. Yes. But it does not help a lot like what you and blue are insisting. What will bolster your application portfolio is your undergrad GPA, recommendations of your former profs, and to a lesser extent, ECs. And, of course, top grad schools considers your undergrad school. A 3.8 at Cal is equivalent to a 3.8 at Duke. A 3.8 at Duke is viewed more valuable than a 3.8 earned at Boise State University, for instance.</p>
<p>RML:</p>
<p>small nits…</p>
<p>H only has about 1800 grads per year. </p>
<p>H was embarrassed by the Globe article 10+ years ago about its Latin Honors, so it has reduced those that receive such honors. The students haven’t changed, just the definition of who is eligible, bringing H more in line with the other Ivies.</p>
<p>Cal’s mean gpa is a 3.3, which is not much lower than H (3.45). With the exception of Engineering (and Philosophy) Cal’s days of grade brutality are long-gone,but yes it is still difficult.</p>
<p>carry-on</p>
<p>PreLaw can still be kinda tough depending on one’s major. Premed should not be that bad for bio-sci majors. (sakky?) Of course, compare those 35% physical science A’s with the mean grade of an A- at Brown and Yale.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“Berkeley News | Berkeley”>Berkeley News | Berkeley;
<p>btw: I’m not insisting on anything…just stating a fact. UC advising stinks in comparison to most private schools. I’ve readily admitted that fact for years, and is one big reason why I have been suggesting to OOS’ers to look elsewhere. (According to BlueDevilMike, Stanford’s advising is not very good either, at least for premed.) And the other fact is that Cal’s Career Services has no way to track those that apply to grad/professional school-- No Way. If you care to make conclusions based on a small collection of data points be my guest. Personally, I remember a term from a computer class years ago: GIGO.</p>
<p>Blue, you probably have left Cal a very long time ago when the policies were quite different from what they are now. </p>
<p>To earn a 3.8 from Cal is almost an impossible thing to do. But it’s still possible. It’s just that, it won’t be served to you on a silver platter. You have to work your a$$ very, very hard, or harder than you would when you’re in an Ivy League School. For instance, no one has actually earned it at Haas this year. And Haas graduates 350 students every year. I’m not even sure if there’s one from CoE either. Most of those who graduate with Highest Honors (3.8 or higher) were from L&S. But I doubt if they would count to over 200. Please take note that whilst Berkeley’s average GPA is 3.3, earning a 3.3 GPA is very different from earning a 3.8 or higher. A 3.3 would very rarely get you into H/Y/S Law or H/Y/JHU/UCSF Med. On average, only 20% of Cal grads would earn a Distinction/Honors. The rest won’t, like almost everyone who just graduated from Haas this year. </p>
<p>At Harvard, 50% will graduate with honors. So, even if Harvard graduates 1,800 a year, still, 900 students will graduate with latin honors. Harvard’s average GPA is significantly higher than Berkeley’s, correct? </p>
<p>[Honors</a> Harvard College](<a href=“http://www.college.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k61161&pageid=icb.page263699]Honors”>http://www.college.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k61161&pageid=icb.page263699)</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is, HYPSMC are always viewed on a league higher than all the rest of the schools in the US. A 3.8 from Harvard or Caltech or MIT or Princeton carries more weight than a 3.8 from Berkeley or Duke or Brown or Michigan or Cornell or UCLA. School prestige is the reason behind this very cruel, very secretly practiced, admission policy. So there exists a school prestige which some CC posters are denying. That biases are even practiced in many companies. HYPSMC grads are favored over grads from other schools.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually a 3.8 from Princeton carries much more weight than a 3.8 from Harvard. Harvard has rampant grade inflation and Princeton, not so much. Each school has its own degree of grade inflation and the post-graduate schools all know what the different scales are.</p>
<p>A 3.8 from Berkeley or UCLA or Michigan carries a great deal of weight because it is so hard to get.</p>