The most prestigious schools to the sight of top professionals schools:

Graduate School
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<p>Alright guys lets get back on track here. Although Alexandre provided data from an older bulletin, this is an up-to-date bulletin from the University of Chicago Law School that contains placement statistics from undergraduate programs.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/fi...2010-10-05.pdf[/url]”>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/fi...2010-10-05.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Chicago Law 2010-11

  1. Chicago: 23
  2. Northwestern: 21
  3. UCLA: 18
  4. Duke: 15
  5. Illinois-Urbana Champagne: 15
  6. Cornell: 14
  7. Dartmouth: 14
  8. BYU: 13
  9. Berkeley: 13
  10. Wisconsin-Madison: 11
  11. UMiami: 11
  12. Yale: 11
  13. Georgetown: 11
  14. Harvard: 10
  15. UNC-Chapel Hill: 10
  16. USC: 10
  17. University of California (compilation of other UC schools): 10
  18. Emory: 9
  19. Michigan-Ann Arbor: 9
  20. UT-Austin: 9
  21. Notre Dame: 9</p>

<p>Stanford only has 8 and Princeton only has 7 students currently matriculated at the University of Chicago Law School in case ya’ll are wondering. Does anyone know why Princeton seems to be doing worse than HYS across the board and even Dartmouth, Duke and Cornell in most instances? Grade deflation seems to be alive and kicking at Old Nassau.:p</p>

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<p>You dont have data on applicants, just matriculants.
Maybe more Princeton kids choose to go straight to I banks so they can have those U Chicago lawyers working for them on deals.</p>

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<p>Perhaps their grade inflation means its students are able to choose ‘better’ than Chicago, i.e., HYS, or prefer NYC (Columbia-NYU)?</p>

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<p>I’d go with monydad’s theory. Princeton isn’t top 3 at Yale/Harvard Law, JHU Med and HBS either. Or maybe, H/Y/S are just unspectacular to the view of top professional schools.</p>

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<p>This thread is becoming more ridiculous every day. ;)</p>

<p>Chicago Law school is not good enough, what is it, top-5 or 10?..</p>

<p>Princeton grads don’t measure up or forego grad prof school…</p>

<p>I’m guessing RML’s quote s/b:</p>

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</p>

<p>Also, a working link to les-diables-bleus’ (only way I can spell it) current Chicago L enrollment would be good.</p>

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</p>

<p>Humm, that sounds eerily similar to a part of the methodology used in the Forbes ranking! Although many of the elements of the article are correct and almost universally known to be true, the “scientific” basis of this research leaves much to be desired. But, what is there to expect from the Center for College Affordability & Productivity?</p>

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<p>Hopefully this link will work: <a href=“http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/file/TheLawSchool%20PDF%202010-10-05.pdf[/url]”>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/file/TheLawSchool%20PDF%202010-10-05.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, here’s Princeton’s law school matriculation data: [Stats</a> « Office of Career Services « Princeton University](<a href=“Search Opportunities | Human Resources”>Search Opportunities | Human Resources)</p>

<p>

As you can see, the data’s not that impressive. In fact, there’s a discussion going on in the Michigan sub forum how University of Michigan applicants had a slightly higher acceptance rate at Harvard Law than Princeton applicants. We can see that the admission rate for Princeton pre-law students is less than 20% at almost every single N14 law school.</p>

<p>Besides, most of the top 10 schools have a majority of their student body going to work directly at i-banks or consulting firms so Princeton’s not unique in that regard.</p>

<p>

Well the overwhelming majority of Princeton students get rejected from these five law schools so they have no reason to feel that they are “above” Chicago Law. In fact, the majority of Princetonians are not good enough to get in.</p>

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<p>les, then I guess there’s something that goes around schools with superb engineering department that make them less valuable at top professional schools, relative to Harvard and Yale. Maybe the best students at Stan/Prince are in the engineering dept, where grade deflation is rampant. Either that, or there’s a high disproportion of Stan/Prince students that enter IBanking/MConsulting/Finance straight right out of college. </p>

<p>It can also be explained this way: Students that enter H/Y have this preconceived idea that they’re going there to go to a top law/med/bus school someday. Maybe it’s a cultural thing too. No one is really sure yet. But what is clear to me is both Stanford and Princeton have a substantial advantage over Duke, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA and the rest of the Ivies. And, there is no clear evidence I see that attending Duke undergrad would give you a preference over attending UCLA or Michigan, for instance. The only consolation I see in going to Duke undergrad is that – advising at Duke is better. But to the sight of the admission officers at the top professional schools, Duke = Michigan = UCLA = top LACs = the rest of the Ivies. Only HYPSM are special. But then again, everybody knows that.</p>

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<p>^^^^Once of the best reasoned responses I have read on CC in a long time. Well done RML!</p>

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<p>I completely agree. Kids from HYPSM seem to get a big free “boost”, but with the other schools, the boost is insignificant. Students from, say, Duke or UCLA or BYU are definitely compared equally based on their accomplishments. In other words, a standout baller from UCLA or Georgetown will get in, while an average student from Duke or Northwestern won’t. Only at HYPSM are you given enough “slack” for being average in the admissions process, just because you go to that school.</p>

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<p>The main advantage of going to a highly ranked non-HYPSM private school is your own perceived ability to perform better there than at lower-ranked schools, because you think the advising is better, or you feel more comfortable on campus, or that you depend on lots of other motivated kids to become motivated yourself, etc.</p>

<p>From what I’ve seen, prestige only becomes powerful/useful enough with HYPSM. Everywhere else, it’s all about yourself.</p>

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<p>Amen to that, caltanner! :)</p>

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</p>

<p>Keep drinking that koolaid… I love how people love to try to diminish the prestige, power of the other ivies. You guys are such ■■■■■■, it’s quite funny and pathetic at the same time. Your agenda is so obvious… Get over the fact that you don’t or didn’t get accepted to one of the other ivies, already!</p>

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<p>Of course you both have affiliations to Berkeley so that’s what you would like to think. Reality is a lot different as we can see from all this data on the thread. In the real world, only Harvard gets that sort of special boost. Princeton applicants have no advantage over Columbia or Duke applicants.</p>

<p>Did you two honestly compare UCLA to Columbia and Duke? This is an insult to these elite schools. Most students from Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Brown, Penn, UChicago, Columbia and Caltech could have gotten into UCLA with their eyes closed and their hands tied behind their back.</p>

<p>

This is the silliest thing I’ve ever read. I wouldn’t have gotten the job I have now if I didn’t have “Duke” on my resume. The company I’m going to be working for in the Fall only hires from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Duke and Georgetown. Your resume wouldn’t have even been read if it said “UCLA” at the top. There’s too much competition as there is at the company’s core schools for the job for them to even consider outside.</p>

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<p>

But how would they type! Anyway, you can receive just as good an education at UCLA as Duke if you are prepared to work at it, just like any such school.</p>

<p>

Your resume also wouldn’t have even been read if it said “Stanford” or “Oxford” at the top, if you’re telling the truth. It’s just an idiotic hiring practice; they probably lose out on some of the best applicants.</p>

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</p>

<p>[Capital</a> One Careers](<a href=“http://www.capitalone.com/careers/campus/index.php]Capital”>http://www.capitalone.com/careers/campus/index.php)</p>

<p>Yeah, it’s kind of absurd, and at the same time I don’t doubt that he’s telling the truth. Let’s look at Capital One, which recruits for these positions: Strategy, Business, Data, Finance, Operations, Statistics, and Systems. </p>

<p>Strategy: Brown, Harvard, Yale</p>

<p>Business: CMU, W&M, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, JHU, MIT, Rice, UMich, Stanford, UNC, Notre Dame, UPenn, UTexas, UVA, WUSTL, Wellesley</p>

<p>Data: CMU, Cornell, GTech, Ohio State, Texas A&M, Florida, UTexas, UW, WUSTL</p>

<p>Finance: W&M, GTech, Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, UMCP, UMich, UNC, Notre Dame, UVA, UW, VTech, WUSTL</p>

<p>Statistics: Ohio State, VTech</p>

<p>Systems: Penn State, Texas A&M, UMCP, UMich, UVA, VTech</p>

<p>Operations: GTech, Ohio State, Penn State, Texas A&M, Florida, UMCP, UW, VTech</p>

<p>So yeah, pretty easy to see what they think of public schools. Some of the decisions seem kind of arbitrary like Brown being placed above MIT and Stanford.</p>

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<p>Of course you have affiliation with Duke so that’s what you would like to think. See what I did there?</p>

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<p>Others could easily say that you’re overestimating the prestige of the Ivies, simply because they’re Ivies.</p>

<p>I think surveys of layman’s prestige and employer’s prestige generally result in HYPSM at the very top, and the prestige for other schools very quickly plateaus after that. So there’s some truth to caltanner’s statement.</p>

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<p>“Also, here’s Princeton’s law school matriculation data:” </p>

<p>"As you can see, the data’s not that impressive. "</p>

<p>I don’t know if it’s impressive or not, I haven’t compared results of different schools.</p>

<p>More importantly, the data isn’t normalized for applicants of comparable capabilty.</p>

<p>Every school admits a class with a distribution of capabilities, with a mean and also a standard deviation from that mean. Surely you don’t expect someone from Princeton to be blindly admitted someplace, regardless of where they are within that distribution, do you? Do you think an idiot should get into U Chicago law school, simply because they somehow managed to squeaked thru Princeton?</p>

<p>To properly compare, you would have to look at results for comparably qualified applicants from each school. If you’re saying GPA can’t be compared, then at least compare based on applicants with the same LSAT scores.</p>

<p>If you cant do this, then there are no meaningful conclusions to be drawn about any affect of the school itself. Because you don’t know the characteristics of the subset of the school’s population that constitute those particular applicants. Every graduate is not identically all the same, from the vast predominance of schools.</p>

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<p>“The company I’m going to be working for in the Fall only hires from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Duke and Georgetown.”</p>

<p>Once again someone is suggesting that Duke is on par with HYP. It’s pathetic…</p>

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<p>

One can mentally picture this conversation:

This “HYPSM” worship has gotten entirely out of hand on CC, something I partially blame on several longtime posters who should know better, including at least one moderator.</p>

<p>Those five universities are among the best and most selective colleges in the country - arguably the strongest and most selective. The difference between HYPSM and other top schools is one of degree, however, rather than kind. There is nothing fundamentally different about any of those five schools. They may have more money, more research, and higher SAT scores, but they’re not on a separate plane of existence. For a difference in kind, look to Juilliard or Deep Springs - not Penn or Chicago.</p>

<p>The reality is that colleges exist on a sort of broad spectrum, with a fair amount of overlap in between colleges of similar quality. Separating HYPSM for whatever subjective reasons and then blandly pronouncing the next 20+ schools to be precisely the same is absurd. A school like Columbia is much closer in academic strength and selectivity to Yale than it is to USC, for example - though all three universities are fine institutions.</p>