<p>If they really only look at the best score, and don’t care how many times an applicant took it, then why would they want multiple test results? The only reason it makes sense for them to require all of the results is if, in fact, it does affect the decision making process.</p>
<p>Were adcoms lying to us then, or are they lying to us now?</p>
<p>The reason courts do not allow certain prejudicial facts to be disclosed in court is because there is no way to unring the bell. Numerous psych studies have shown the same thing. If you don’t want something to influence your decision, you don’t ask about it. Once you know, you can never say that it didn’t influence your decision unless the decision is a strictly analytical by-the-numbers outcome.</p>
<p>I can see good reasons and bad for requiring that all scores be submitted, but trying to assert at the same time that it won’t negatively influence the results is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, about 30 years ago I worked in an ivy admissions office for 2 years between college and grad school. Things have changed a great deal and I’m no expert on admission today, but the more things change, the more they stay the same.</p>
<p>I have to admit, much of what we were trained to say on the school tours turned out to be, how shall I put this, what it took to draw in the applications. Sure, we wanted to see kids who overcame obstacles, but when we sat around the table, if they had not overcome them with great grades and scores it didn’t matter (pointing to what MIT adcom told you). And while the highest scores got transcribed, we did see them all.</p>
<p>There are a lot of platitudes and a lot of hyperbole in college admissions.</p>
<p>“My biggest hope is to see one more change: the elimination of score choice at the ACT and the elimination of the ACT as a substitute for the SAT Subject Tests.”</p>
<p>Re: this quote-- I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the schools that opt out of score choice for the SAT also do so for the ACT.</p>
<p>Platitudes and hyperboles? Indeed, but there is also a tremendous amount of idle speculation and statements that are never confirmed by facts and evidence. This thread is no exception.</p>
<p>For instance, reading the seminal book by Tom Fischgrund on the evaluation of perfect SAT scores contradicts the old wife tale of schools averaging SAT scores or discounting multiple sittings. The difference? Fischgrund obtained direct access to the entire admissions’ files and the other “reports” are unproven and usually offered by people who never were part of admissions decisions or were more than a decade ago.</p>
<p>The same can be said about the impact of technicians transcribing the SAT scores onto report cards and ONLY reporting the highest individual scores. This information has been confirmed by circulating exact copies of the cards and admission folders. In addition, the simple artithmetic of “adcom versus time per folder” simply leads one to believe that adcoms do NOT have the time to scrutinize minute details of tests scores and transcripts in the manner that people like to report. There is a reason why schools that receive 20,000 applications spend large sums of money to have technicians SUMMARIZING the folders and preparing reading folders. How many adcoms-hours are there needed to spend 20 minutes per folder AND participate in meetings and other office tasks?</p>
<p>I have never seen anything here or from any college that would contradict this statement:</p>
<p>“If you take the ACT, you may submit only your best score.”</p>
<p>Has anyone? lspf72, I think you are mistaken, but if I’m wrong, I want to know.</p>
<p>(For Georgetown and the UC’s, if you take the ACT, they want SAT II subject tests, too. A number of other colleges are like this, too. You can avoid the SAT by taking the ACT but you can’t necessarily avoid SAT II subject tests.)</p>
<p>midwestmom-- I think I read it in one of the recent articles on the (few) schools that were opting out of Score Choice. I think they quoted someone as saying they had the option to do the same for the ACT, but I may be wrong. I know my son hopes it is, because he needs to get his ACT score up, and will be taking it again in the spring. At least (hopefully) it will show improvement–</p>
<p>And another thing about the ACT -
I’m getting the impression that schools just look at the overall score. S2’s English/writing scores are very high, math and science quite low. Do they not break it down at all when the look at the scores for admissions? Hope not.</p>
<p>I just looked at the NY Times article on score choice again, and saw the following: </p>
<p>"Admissions officials at some highly selective colleges — the University of Southern California, Stanford, Claremont McKenna and the University of Pennsylvania, among others — have said that, Score Choice or not, they want all the scores — from the SAT and the ACT. "</p>
<p>This might be what I read. But does it mean the scores are available to them? Am not sure.</p>
<p>I don’t see how they can collect all scores from the ACT. Each seating has a different score report. If scores are not sent to high schools, they will not be on transcripts. Unless the applicant is being trusted to send in ALL seatings, they will not know how many times the ACT was taken.</p>
<p>MidwestMom, I thought the same thing until just a couple of weeks ago, when I found this on Stanford’s site:</p>
<p>“Applicants must submit scores from all SAT tests (including Subject Tests) taken or all ACT tests taken. Applicants cannot elect to ‘hide’ any scores with either testing agency.”</p>
<p>hmmm…that IS interesting. Just checked web sites for a few of the other schools listed as not accepting Score Choice…Penn, CMC & USC…none has anything like: “If you take the ACT, you may submit only your best score.”…but none has new wording like Stanford apparently does now requiring ALL ACT scores to be submitted. So I suspect that up until now its been the unwritten practice for an applicant to submit and for admissions to accept only one ACT score. Guess that nebulous wording leaves admissions at CMC, Penn & USC plenty of wiggle room to do what Stanford has done if they so choose.</p>
<p>So, CB’s push for Score Choice on the SAT might mean that the party is over for single-submitters on the ACT. [From a cost perspective, meaning either more costs for students to submit multiple ACTs or ACT changing policy & assuming more costs to absorb multiple test submissions.] Cynical side of me would say that this secondary effect is aligned with CB’s competitive positioning with ACT.</p>
<p>Again, the schools that NOW require the disclosure of all test scores and foreclose on the loopholes offered by the ACT should be applauded for their LEADERSHIP and not criticized. Since the reasons advanced for the removal of the SAT II Score Choice were that it confused the students, made them forget to release scores, and that schools DID NOT care, we should support the current position of schools such as Stanford. </p>
<p>Fwiw, asking the ACT students to release ALL scores might also indicate a willingness to consider superscoring the indididual scores. </p>
<p>Announcing score choice was a real master stroke by The College Board if they were able to anticipate the reaction by some schools and the resulting changes for … the ACT. Removing this competitive advantage and the LOGICAL exclusion of the ACT as a SAT Subject Test replacement will now leave a clear forerunner.</p>
<p>I missed this, can xiggi or someone else post a reference to the details about SAT II score choice going away (or more accurately, never happening in the first place)?</p>
<p>one of the big reasons for dropping score choice on the Subject Tests was cheating – which I just read about by googling score choice back in the old days. Since all tests are contained in the booklet and a student can take the tests in any order, the proctor has absolutely no way to know which test a kid should be on during which hour. Thus, a kid could sign up for three tests, spend minimal time on two, and 2+ hours on the third, Math 2 for example, by flipping back and forth. With score choice, the Math 2 score is sent to colleges, but the other two low scores are suppressed. The next test day, same cheating applicant spend most of the time on test #2, and blows off Math 2 and the third. Repeat on test day three.</p>
<p>Since the only “penalty” for cheating is complete score cancellation for that day, there was little disincentive for unscrupulous kids to be unscrupulous.</p>
<p>bluebayou, are you saying that this is the reason that score choice will not be an option for SAT IIs? Is there a link to anything from the CB to on this? I understand this is a reason to disallow it, I just guess I was asleep and hadn’t heard anything about elimination of SAT IIs from the plans for score choice. I haven’t gone back to the CB webpages to read the details, I was just hoping someone can point me to some discussions on it here or to the pages at CB which show the change from their original plan. Just looking for a lazy shortcut, if not I’ll go read the info myself.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I understand your point, but I don’t think it’s right for colleges to change the rules after the tests have already been taken.</p>
<p>Let’s say a student is preparing for the LSAT. He knows that he gets only a few attempts and that every score he earns will count, so he’s likely to plan his attempts carefully and make sure he’s prepared before his first try. He’s unlikely to take the test blind, just to see how he might score, or to take it for some reason other than law school admission.</p>
<p>In contrast, the ACT has always been presented as “score choice,” so students here in ACT country have felt no compunction about taking it multiple times. It’s not at all uncommon for students to use the ACT for purposes unrelated to college admissions, as I mentioned in an earlier post – to qualify for an honors program, to apply to Governor’s School, to enter a dual enrollment program, to participate in a talent search, to substitute for an annual achievement test, to apply for a scholarship, etc.</p>
<p>Now, AFTER the test has already been taken multiple times, a college announces that it expects to see all the scores. The scores earned in previous years may put the student at a disadvantage, and the multiplicity of attempts may make him appear test-obsessed. The student also faces significant expense in sending multiple sets of scores. </p>
<p>Had the student known this policy in advance, certainly he would have treated the ACT with more caution and gravity in previous years.</p>
<p>If Stanford wants to see scores from all ACT tests taken from this point forward, then that’s reasonable. The new policy is announced in advance, and students can act accordingly.</p>
<p>But I think it’s unfair to ask for scores earned when students were operating under a different set of rules.</p>
<p>The cancellation of Score Choice came many years ago. The College Board simply killed a rule that did not serve its customers well. To be clear, TCB’s customers are its members and that means the COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES that use the tests for admissions purposes. Students are not their customers; they just happen to have to pay for the service. And, fwiw, score choice did not have an overall beneficial impact on the overwhelming majority of students. </p>
<p>It was killed because it did not make the system any better. And this is also why Score Choice should be eliminated at both the SAT and especially at the ACT. </p>
<p>Now, retroactively, and forever!</p>
<p>PS The TOTAL absence of Score Choice should NOT bar anyone to take the tests as many times as they wish. Without hesitation!</p>