<p>My friend's child is transferring to a public school from a small private school with a poor academic reputation. Her daughter was placed in a 7th grade math track that would have her go into geometry in 10th grade at the earliest.</p>
<p>My friend is freaking out - she feels that her child's life is over, and that since she could not take calculus in 12th grade, no college, not even a community college, would want her.</p>
<p>I've tried to convince her that many kids need to take pre-calculus in college, some because they didn't do well in it in 12th grade, others because they didn't get to it by 12th grade. And that's not just at community colleges.</p>
<p>I feel that if her daughter isn't ready for the next level course in 7th grade, she shouldn't be pushed ahead because it might affect her college plans. If the previous school was not very good, she needs to learn what she should have in 6th grade there.</p>
<p>The only thing that may be valid is that if she goes into computers or especially math, she would be at a disadvantage. But I think if she does very well in those things, it won't matter what year of math she is in - they aren't targeting the highest level colleges.</p>
<p>How can you say what level of college they will be targeting when the kid is in 7th grade? </p>
<p>I think your friend is absolutely correct to be concerned. What she needs to do is find out how to fix it. For example, can her D take algebra in summer school between 7th and 8th grade? Can she take an online math class that would help her catch up (EPGY being one example)? What about Kumon?</p>
<p>I certainly agree that math is a building block process and she needs a firm foundation and shouldn’t skip steps. But there are ways to accomplish that outside of the regular school year classroom.</p>
<p>Geometry and Algebra II could be taken concurrently (either at her home school or a combination of home school and online). She could do a year of math in the summer. She could take Calculus for the first time in college; there are virtually no colleges that require Calc, and “middle school transfer meant she couldn’t take calc” is an entirely reasonable explanation.</p>
<p>If the placement is entirely inappropriate (kid with a strong intuitive grasp of math and exposure to the concepts gets placed into remedial class because “everyone from that private is way behind”), and the kid is willing to jump through hoops, figure out what it takes to get a better placement for 8th grade and do it. That might be self-study and a placement test, or taking an accredited course online / evenings / summer, or doing well enough in class plus parental request.</p>
<p>If the placement is appropriate, pull some degree programs from likely universities and show the mom that they all start with calculus. There will always be someone more advanced than you; staying at the expected level with a strong foundation is not a bad thing.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Every college, including “the highest level colleges” admits kids who have not yet taken calculus, and kids who are not yet ready to take calculus. Harvard, Princeton, and Chicago are among the mathiest and highest level non-technical colleges, and all three offer precalculus courses for freshmen. They may not have many takers – probably fewer than a dozen students per year – but they are right there on the course schedule.</p></li>
<li><p>I had one kid who was slotted into accelerated math in 7th grade and another who wasn’t. The first one took calculus in 11th grade. Their high school allowed the second to double-up on math in 10th grade (Geometry and Algebra II) so as to enable taking AP Calculus BC in 12th grade. At least around here, that is a very common pattern. By the way, the accelerated-math kid developed a real aversion to it in 8th grade, and struggled with it in high school and college, taking as little as possible. The non-accelerated-math kid actually loved math, and took a lot more of it (and statistics).</p></li>
</ol>
Community colleges take everyone. Agree with allyphoe as to showing her some typical degree programs at various likely candidate schools. How does the D herself feel about this situation?</p>
<p>Neither of my kids took calculus. And none of the colleges they applied to required it. If the child is interested in math, then she can always take advanced math during the summer. </p>
<p>My daughter is going to an engineering college. She ‘only’ took pre-calc in high school because we moved between 8th and 9th grade and she chose to repeat Algebra 1 (took it as honors) in 9th grade because she didn’t feel confident. BEST decision she ever made. She breezed through all her math classes, but didn’t push anything. She had to take a placement test for math for freshman year and she was placed into calc, right where many of her classmates who took calc already were placed. My nephew is also majoring in engineering and his school recommended that all freshmen start in calc, even if they took AP calc in high school. He, too, only took pre-calc in a very demanding high school.</p>
<p>I think your friend should calm down and her child should do the math sequence assigned by the school. If she is a math genius, then as others suggested she can do a summer program or double math one year. My daughter took pre-calc and AP stat in the same year.</p>
<p>Correct me if I’m wrong, but the ACT barely dabbles in trig, let alone calc? It’s focus is Alg I, Alg II, Geometry and a tiny bit of trig. Is a college going to be alarmed that a student with a 34 math sub score didn’t take calc? HIGHLY doubtful.</p>
<p>In our HS, the math and science offerings are tracked together. So a student who is not placed in the top math track --which, assuming no doubling up, results in Calc senior year–will also not be placed in the science track that aims at Honors Foundations of Science freshman year, followed by APs in Chem, Bio, and Physics. They have to have the math for it.</p>
<p>No, her life is not over, obviously, but her future choices <em>could</em> be curtailed. It would have been a very bad thing for my kid, who was initially placed in the wrong 8th grade algebra class after a bad teacher fit in 7th grade. Luckily, he was qualified to take distance learning courses at CTY, so he did part of their Honors Algebra in the late summer, was retested and placed in the correct class, which he went on to ace. (And took AP Calc, Bio, Chem, and Physics later.)</p>
<p>I wouldn’t push a kid into a class they aren’t ready for and have no interest in, but I wouldn’t sit back and let things slide if she <em>is</em> capable and interested. I see no reason to assume she isn’t from what the OP said. She doesn’t have to be a “math genius” to be in the wrong class, ultimately, or to make up for it. (And no better way to kill a kid’s interest in a subject than to put them in the class with the kids who are the lowest achieving…)</p>
<p>Is hopping/skipping geometry a horrible idea? I know many schools go alg 1 > geometry > alg 2. Perhaps hopping over geo and doing it outside of school would be a way to get him/her on the accelerate track?</p>
<p>Your friend needs to relax a bit. (And if she was so concerned about this, perhaps she shouldn’t have had her child in a “poor academic” private school?). There are only a very small number of programs which require applicants to have completed calculus. She would only be shut out from these STEM programs at a very few top schools. Most top STEM programs use calculus as a math starting point. </p>
<p>That said, schools do like to see students who take the most challenging courses, which she would not be. Again, it may not matter if she is not shooting for a top school, or if her strengths lie elsewhere than in math anyhow. I doubt they care if their music majors took calculus. </p>
<p>But if she is finding the math work easy, I would suggest accelerating her so that she is on par with the other honor students coming out of her school. Probably the simplest way to do this is to take geometry and algebra2 in the same year. There may be other options depending on the structure of her particular program. If she doesn’t find algebra1 to be quite easy, I would caution against pushing her ahead too fast. It only gets harder. </p>
<p>Yes, skipping geometry is a bad idea. For one thing, it’s on the college admission tests.</p>
<p>I would not recommend this, since the next course after algebra 2 is pre-calc, generally involving trigonometry.</p>
<p>There are usually many options for students in public schools to catch up in math should they develop an interest after the initial “sorting” in middle school.</p>
<p>No one has asked how well the girl the girl does in math class or how much she likes math.</p>
<p>If she did well at the private school and likes math, then doubling up might work.
If she didn’t do so well then perhaps a summer course is in order.</p>
<p>No one said that the 7th grade class was algebra. In fact, most likely it is not. Most likely it is a “pre-algebra” class for the kids who are going to take algebra itself in 8th grade, then geo in 9th, and so forth.</p>
<p>In our schools, when S was that age, they divided the 8th grade algebra students into one class that took the subject at the HS with a HS teacher using a more serious textbook, and a couple classes who took it at the Jr High with a lesser textbook. Students in the latter classes often had to repeat algebra in 9th grade, and historically had been weak in the math necessary for the honors/AP science clases, which is why they created this special class</p>
<p>I kind of get why the Mom is concerned. My kid is a late-bloomer in Math - an indifferent 5th/6th grade teacher (it was the same teacher both years) had her uninterested in Math so she got put in regular pre-Algebra in 7th grade instead of Algebra. She had a great 7th grade Math teacher and she did so well there she got put on the Honors track in 8th grade. </p>
<p>Still she is behind some of her peers - some are taking AP Calc in junior year and she only had Honors PreCalc available to her. So in her senior year she asked to take 2 Maths, which they generally don’t allow (AP Calc & AP Stat). The downside of this is because of scheduling constraints, she cannot take an AP Physics or AP Chem class (she is taking Honors Physics instead).</p>
<p>Maybe she can ask for her kid to get a placement test?</p>
<p>Edit: Just wanted to clarify my point - it’s probably possible to catch up later, but catching up will likely involve some trade-offs later too. If the kid is actually ready for the Honors track, it would be a shame to leave her in the regular track.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is about taking algebra in seventh grade. OP said the girl wouldn’t take geometry until 10th grade, which in my district means she would be taking algebra in ninth grade.</p>
<p>I only asked about how the placement was determined because maybe it was made based on the poor reputation of the former school and not on the child’s particular skills (or lack thereof).</p>
<p>I’d tell her not to freak out, but to keep an eye on the situation. Ask about a placement test. If there isn’t one, let her start where she was placed and see how she does. If she is a star in the course, then lobby hard to get her moved. If she doesn’t do too well…be glad she was placed where she was. </p>