<p>Thank you so much, OP, for answering my question and everyone else’s!</p>
<p>Because the placement was based on a test given by the school, and assuming the school has been using it for a while, I would tend to trust the school and just monitor closely. She’ll have a lot of adjustment to make already; being in over her head academically would be another stressor. </p>
<p>If I was her parent, before committing, I would ask what the options are down the road (both this year and later years) if it turns out that this isn’t an appropriate placement. Would they let her move up after the first reporting period? In a couple of years, would the district allow her to double up on Alg I and Geometry?</p>
<p>Back to the original question, no, her college chances/life aren’t ruined by not getting in the higher math placement. It’s too early to know whether math will even end up being her thing so it may be a lot of worrying for nothing. Just keep an eye on it. </p>
<p>OP says “also did poorly on the Terra Novas, plus doubtful got good recommendations from the private school though did well (As and Bs) in math.” Not sure what Terra Novas is, but I assume it’s some kind of test. So it appears this student was tested twice, didn’t do all that well, and that also she doesn’t have the support of her elementary school math teachers. </p>
<p>As mathmom suggested the parent could try to push her into the higher level of middle school math if the school allows it. Just make sure the opportunity to transfer to the lower class and/or to repeat the material the next year will be available and that her progress is monitored for what it is and not what the parent would like it to be. If she’s not really solid, she should not move on. That could be the best option. </p>
<p>My daughter, who just finished the college admission process, just looked over my shoulder and said “Not understanding it will look a lot worse than being a year behind.”</p>
<p>Moving up to a faster-moving math class after a quarter is difficult, because the student will start off behind. BT/DT in 7th grade myself, and it was a sink-or-swim situation with no support. I wouldn’t count on it. Sounds as if she should go with the placement they gave her–especially since it is corroborated by the Terra Novas–and continue to feel successful in math and build a good foundation. If she wants to move up, taking a summer course may be the best way to do it. Don’t forget online resources: she doesn’t have to spend all summer in a classroom.</p>
<p>I think some homeschoolers use them as well because you can just buy them “off the rack” and grade them yourself. The Terra Nova results conflict with the IQ tests she has taken, which show an IQ in the 130s (but not consistently that high).</p>
<p>I agree with your daughter mathyone, better to know it than not know it. My husband took calc in HS and he learned absolutely zero though he got an A. He took Calc 1 in college and it was a revelation that it wasn’t him, it was the HS teacher.</p>
<p>Nobody’s life is over at 13 no matter what. On the other note, absolutely everybody is ready to take algebra when they are 12. In fact, the elementary schools outside of the USA are doing just that. that would include every single kid in 6th grade in such a school no matter what is the standing. And they proceed with adding more math classes (like geometry, trig.) in later classes of middle school. Yes, the 12 y o brain can take it and it can take it much easier than the 15 y o. It is not a good idea to assume that somebody is NOT ready for algebra, except to the bad teacher who is teaching it.<br>
And again, on a third note, if parents are so obsessed with whatever path their kid is on at school, they can EASILY teach algebra themselves at home. The non-college (and in fact, college) algebra is NOT rocket science, it is pretty elementary facts, which one can think of as a language of science, the universal language also that is NOT anywhere near in complexity as the language that we use for reading, writing and speaking, not even close, does not require any special ability. We are not talking about UG degree in Mathematics here</p>
<p>Terra Novas were used by our public school system at one time. They were supposed to help teachers evaluate kids’ progress. They are not exclusive to private schools OR homeschoolers. It was not a “grade it yourself” test: I believe that TerraNova itself graded them, since I recall significant complaint from the teachers about the lateness of the results.</p>
<p>No not really, the Terra Novas were used in our public school along with CAT tests from K through I think middle school. Each year they used one or the other to measure one or two areas. They are just standardized nationally normed tests much like the PLAN and ACT or any other standardized tests kids take. </p>
<p>I actually like nationally normed tests, without them it’s difficult to measure the caliber of a school in my opinion…but anyway my third son is in a competitive engineering college and he only had through what basically amounts to pre-calc. From what I can tell of his entering engineering class last year some kids were in pre-calc (didn’t even test into Calc 1), some were in Calc1 and some were in Calc 2 but they all were accepted into engineering school. I agree with others - progress at the “kid’s” speed. </p>
<p>@MiamiDAP that’s not entirely true. I took algebra in 7th grade and there were plenty that struggled with it. Most people are not ready for algebra at age 12. There’s a reason its a high school class.</p>
<p>What I heard was that you <em>could</em> not spend the money and grade yourself, or let the company grade them and do all the stats on the tests. Which I expect public schools would pay for the company to grade it. In my state, you have to use the state tests if you are a public school, period.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP You aren’t accurate. Not every 12-year-old brain is ready for Algebra. That’s like saying every 6-year-old is ready to read. It’s just an average. Plenty of kids are ready to read at 7 while some are ready at 2. Algebra is the same… some will be ready at 9 while others not until 13. Talking about other countries and math is just apples and oranges. They tend towards totally different packaging methods. Most don’t have “Algebra 1” the way we do. They break it up so that some principals are introduced in year six while some not until year 8… for example. Many countries require 2 years of kindergarten… like Singapore. They also have a HUGE tutoring business to the point where it’s a better living to be a tutor than a teacher because by grade 6, their future is determined and families in a panic.</p>
<p>Look, I’m not suggesting the U.S. is doing a good job at educating our kids (or that we, as a parenting whole are routinely raising them to be good students) but if you are going to suggest that every child is capable of the same things at every year… if you are going to bring in other nations math approaches as a measure of when kids are ready, you have to really look at the WHOLE picture… not just stats.</p>
<p>The choice that is probably easiest if the kid wants to accelerate is to double Geometry and Alg 2 in one year.</p>
<p>But, my S’12 is not “mathy”. He took Alg 1 in 9th, Geom in 10th, Alg 2 in 11th and Analysis in 12th (which is what our HS calls pre-calc). He was accepted almost everywhere he applied and I don’t mean community colleges. </p>
<p>I agree with many others who recommended letting the girl get used to the new school and see how this year goes. She will be more confident if she does well with the class.
She can always double up in high school.</p>
<p>In our public middle school they have to pass a common core standards test after having Algebra 1 in 8th grade. If they pass they can then take Geometry in 9th grade. If not they repeat it. </p>
<p>My d had the opportunity to double up in math and take Geometry and Algebra 2, but she chose instead to follow the accelerated science and history track.</p>
<p>As a senior she would have had to take a dual enrollment class for math if she had already taken Calculus as a junior. The school requires math, english, science and social studies class every year.
The dual enrollment class has to be paid by the parents.</p>
<p>'MaimiDAP, that’s not entirely true. I took algebra in 7th grade and there were plenty that struggled with it. Most people are not ready for algebra at age 12. There’s a reason its a high school class."
-Agree 100%. the reason - incapable teachers. This is the ONLY reason. If you can teach a 6 y o how to read, you definitely can teach a 12 y o (or younger) algebra which is by far much much less complicated brain activity that any aspects of Launguage, including reading. People simply have some sort of bias against it her in the USA which does not exist in other countries. Why? Easy - bad teachers want us to believe that our brain is NOT capable instead of taking the blame upon themselves.</p>
<p>@MIamiDAP, no that is not the only reason. Kids develop at different rates and many are simply not able to grasp the concepts. Would you also say that we have universally terrible language teachers because after 6 years of foreign language study in middle school and high school our students are not fluent? Because we know that any 6 year old child will be fluent in their native language, so clearly it’s not an issue of brain development and readiness (in this case being past the time when the brain learns language easily), so it has to be bad teaching.</p>
<p>…“There’s a reason its a high school class” …BTW, the reason that it is in HS here in the USA again exists ONLY in the USA. In other countries, where nobody brainwashed them about math and sciences, ALL (every single student, not some top brainy kids) start algebra in 6 grade (or 5th) and start both Physics and Chemistry sometime in the middle school Then Physics does not ever stop, it is taught for several years all thru graduation from HS. It is absolutely crazy idea that Physics could be taught in one year and good teachers actually recognise the fact that it is not possible and teach only one and the hardest part of it - Mechanics. However, it does not prepare the future EE for college, the college have many remedial classes (including math) that have to be taught actually in K - 12, which also results in higher cost of UG education. </p>
<p>My D did not take calculus. She will be attending Yale in the fall (dang - gotta stop saying that. She leaves in 22 days . She took AP stats senior year. Just one note: she plans on being a literature major so higher level math has never been her thing. :(( </p>
<p>Quantum mechanics is tough. Mechanics, easier IMHO because you can show what is happening. It’s difficult to do quantum labs in high school let alone most colleges.</p>
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