We mostly wrote to head coaches…I initiated correspondence, but my daughter has assumed responsibility this school year.
The issue of having a well-known/well-connected (not always the same thing!) club/high school coach is an interesting topic. I do think there is some benefit to having a well-known/well-connected coach…even if they don’t actively advocate for the prospect.
The coaches we spoke to on our college visits expressed they had more trust in the club coaches they knew well when they asked about particular fencers. This is important for them since they want to know the character of the fencer, as well as his/her dedication to fencing. What’s also important is their sense and reassurance that the fencer will commit to continue fencing once recruited, since many college coaches have been “burned” by kids who just stopped fencing once admitted. It seems once we sent our introductory emails, all the college coaches contacted and spoke with the club coach, some even before responding back to our email.
^^ agree with @quiksword - if the college coach knows the club coach, they’ll likely contact them to ask about the fencer. My daughter sent an email to multiple college coaches, one of whom her club coach had been coached by. The next time we saw the club coach, we found out that college coach had telephoned the club coach before emailing my daughter back. He had asked the club coach about dedication and maturity. He also made a comment back to my daughter saying he knew she had likely received good quality instruction at her club.
So, if the coaches know each other, they’ll likely talk.
Rats, just realized that the NCAA blackout falls on the week of Spring Break. Greaaaaat.
I recently received a few questions by PM from a HS student and thought they were of broad enough interest that it would be worthwhile to post them here for the general discussion.
Here are the questions, slightly edited to protect the identity of the individual:
I would just like to ask you if you think I am recruitable for fencing. I am a junior in high school. I have just aged out of cadet, and I was ranked in the top 30. My junior ranking is top 90 and my senior (Div1) ranking in top 120. I have one national medal in cadet. My rating is A16. In your opinion, am I recruitable for Ivy League and other academically strong fencing schools? Also, how do I check if a college has a need for a fencer in my weapon? And, finally, how will I know where to apply based on where the other top fencers my age are going?
I guess like most answers, “it depends”. My kid asked for a meeting with one coach and he very nicely but bluntly replied that “I’m not recruiting for that spot for 2018.” Then we realized that 2 very strong fencers, will be going next year. They only have one or two recruiting spots per weapon but if you have great scores, that could be incentive for the coach to give you a letter of support, setting you apart from the rest of the application pack.
But try to make contact with the coaches or visit campuses soon so you are on their radar before summer nationals.
I am curious if the fencer in question only recently decided that s/he wanted to fence in college. To me, it seems a little late to be wondering these sorts of things — especially if the stats are accurate. I’d think an A-rated fencer whose medaled at a Cadet NAC would be very tuned into the process. Or that his parents/coach would be.
If s/he is an A and has Div1 points, they obviously have some skill that some college team could use. In terms of finding out if a college has a need…while asking a coach directly (if you get an on-campus meeting with them/they answer their email/phone) is probably the best way to get your answer, you could also look at the current rosters (adding in the incoming Fall 2017 freshman) and get a good idea of what the needs at a given school might be.
I agree with chelsea465 above that I’d get on the horn with coaches immediately. Because things are already in motion at many schools.
First and foremost is academics. With just the fencing stats alone maybe difficult for an Ivy. If the grades and board scores are exemplary then some coaches may show interest despite the current fencing stats. However top 90 on the Junior list despite the A rating may not attract the interest of the HYP-C. But will not hurt to send out emails to head coaches asking if they have a need for recruits in your weapon, especially if your academics are strong. You also have the summer nationals to further improve on your fencing stats.
@guiksword: Great point regarding academics being critical…I was sort of assuming that the prospect would have the grades/scores to be even asking the question. An AI “in the ballpark” and all that.
Also note my use of the phrase “some college team”…I’m sure once you get out of the top-tier (fencing-wise), there would be many teams that would love to have an A-rated fencer with Junior/Senior points, no?
@SevenDad I certainly agree that an A-rated fencers with some position on the Junior and Senior list would be very recruitable at many of the Div 3 and some Div 1 schools. Few years ago, my son wasn’t an A and no national points, but still had the admission support of a coach at an academically elite very strong Div 3 school. But none of the elite Div 1 schools even bother to respond to his emails.
Somewhere upstream (or in the original, unconsolidated thread), superdomestique asked prospects who’ve benefited from reading this thread to share their outcomes — what worked/what didn’t. Hoping that, with deposits due in a few weeks, parents of graduating seniors can share some of their stories and advice.
Thanks for all of the good information. Son is a wrestler, not a fencer, but I think quite a bit of the advice given here applies to his situation. I especially liked the discussion in February about crazy travel and where to draw the line. Not much international travel in our sport, but the same debates come up for national travel. Lots of people think we are crazy to travel as much as we do, others can’t understand why we don’t travel more.
I think the 2 sports are actually very similar, you are the white collar version and we are the blue collar. VERY different crowd though. I’m guessing at a fencing tournament most parents are at least quietly hoping for their son/daughter to be able to use the sport for an Ivy admission. Not the case at a wrestling tournament. The first time I took my wife to a national wrestling tournament with my son her comment was “Please tell me that we don’t fit in here!” I just talked to a dad (who did not go to college) last week who is happy that his son is being recruited, because otherwise he said there was no chance he could convince him to go to college. That is probably more typical.
Thanks for the guidance.
This may sound like a dumb question, but what exactly counts as “being recruited”?
We have contacted some coaches and have our first visit scheduled, but I’m not clear on exactly what it means to be “recruited” versus “supported” versus “we’d be happy to have you if you get accepted on your own.” If a prospect is given a code to put on the application, does that tell Admissions “this is a recruit, please accept him unless there’s something really disastrous on his app” or does the code just mean “we’re not officially recruiting this kid, but if he’s accepted on his own merits, let us know”?
We know someone who applied to his top choice last fall and was given a code for his application; he was accepted EA, but did not receive any further contact from the coach until a few weeks ago when he got a letter saying “welcome to the team.” He’s still not sure if he was “recruited” or just vaguely “supported” or just got in on his own and they were happy to give him a slot.
So what kind of questions should we ask? How blunt should we be in terms of asking what they are offering?
Corraleno, your question about what constitutes “recruitment” is an interesting one. I don’t think the answer is always wholly objective. Clearly, if an athlete receives a Likely Letter from an Ivy or a Letter of Intent from another school, he or she has been recruited. Since colleges generally have a limited number of these absolute recruiting instruments, the next level is what you refer to as “support”. In those cases, the coach will put in his/her recommendation, mark your file or in some way indicate that this is a student who the coach recommends and wants for the particular team. Depending on the coach’s instructions, this may or may entail an early application by the student. Finally, there is what I like to think of as “encouragement” – You’re welcome to work out with and compete for a slot on the team, but we are not extending you either an official recruitment slot or officially supporting your application.
Most coaches, at least in our experience with fencing, are pretty straightforward. Some will not even meet with you if there is no desire to recruit the student. Others will almost certainly give you a sense of your chances as well as the kind of support, if any, they are willing to offer. Do not be afraid to ask. The coaches appreciate when you do not waste their time and most will reciprocate by not wasting yours.
@dadof4kids Not familiar with wrestling, but with fencing, it is the national and international tournaments the fencers have the ability to achieve national ranking by accumulating points based on their placements at these tournaments. None of the local or regional events will award national points. Many college coaches, esp Div 1 schools, would use the fencer’s ranking on the junior point list to aid in their search for a recruit. So for the top tier fencers, it may be imperative they attend all the national events to even maintain their ranking, since it is based on rolling points. I agree with you that a good number of fencing parents have the desire that their child’s fencing ability will help in admission to a top tier college.
We have several respected national rankings, although they are all subjective, similar to college football rankings. The problem with that is that there are certain states that get more respect than others. So my son and another local wrestler have beat kids who are nationally ranked, and placed high at national tournaments but they can’t seen to crack the rankings themselves. I would love an objective system.
That other local wrestler was in a D1 coaches office this summer, and saw his recruiting board. (Got lucky, he was spotted at their camp beating up on everyone, including eventually their varsity wrestler) Several guys he had beat were on the coaches wish list. When he pointed it out to the coach, the coach said “why have I never heard of you?” It’s pretty frustrating, and why I am proactively contacting coaches already even though he is only a sophomore.
There are subtle nuances, and perhaps even occasional manipulations, to USA Fencing points and rankings. Certainly there have been cases of puffed-up ratings. However, for the most part, we in the fencing universe probably take for granted the cleanliness of our relatively objective ranking system. Most national tournaments provide a straightforward, transparent points system. Most international tournaments do the same. There are formulas for international tournament “strength factors” (and these are rarely applied to national events in the form of “weight values”), but these are also readily-available to those willing to wade into the stats weeds a bit. Our system gets a bit more complicated with the shift from “rolling” points to “team” points midway through each fencing season, but this is also relatively clean.
What sets fencing apart from every other sport of which I am aware, is the wealth of international competitions at a very young age. My son competed in his first cadet designated event, in Budapest, at the age of 14. Since that time, from the ages of 14-19, he has competed literally across the globe, from as basic as London and Pisa, to the far reaches of Uzbekistan and Bulgaria. Now that’s something to ‘wrestle’ with…lol
Speaking of Team vs. Rolling…any insight on which one college coaches are more apt to care about? Team seems more like “here’s what I’ve done this season” than Rolling. Of course, generally speaking a fencer should be roughly in the same ballpark on either list.
My understanding is that they use the rolling points as these are the ones in play when eligibility for then-high school juniors rolls (get it?) around. Rolling is also more complete inasmuch as non-US fencers are included, as opposed to filtering out such fencers on the Team list.
Recently received an inquiry via PM and the sender granted me permission to post on the thread:
"Hoping to get some advice. Currently a C-rated sophomore in high school. I decided not to attend any NACs this year so I could practice and study. Last season, I managed to finish in the top 64 in cadets. My unweighted gpa is a 3.7 and my SAT is a 1520.
Looking for help in identifying my weaknesses. Also, do I have any chance of being an appealing prospect for HYP or other top-tier schools?"