<p>I just need to get this off my chest. First of all I understand the injustice of being gapped at a high rankings college and being forced to either not go or take out crushing loans. However there are also some VERY unethical low income people out there.</p>
<p>There is a person who is in my class who is low income, AKA EFC 0 low. However he applied to a merit scholarship and was turned down. In the end he was accepted to the college and received tons of no loan grants and such which meant he had to fork over maybe 500 a year that could easily be paid to match the sticker price including room and books etc. however now apparently the guy isn't satisfied and is frantically applying to all the scholarships he could get his hands on and whines about how they didn't give him a full ride and that he deserved better when plenty of others were gapped in the 10k group. This isn't a case of sour grapes as I myself have managed to earn enough aid so that my parents can comfortably pay for college, but this is just to say that not all low income kids are clueless and they whine and game the system just as much as everyone else.</p>
<p>I don’t understand how it is “unethical” for him to apply for scholarships? I don’t think you know enough about his financial situation OR financial aid to be discussing this. You said that you “managed to earn enough aid,” and he’s attempting to do the exact same thing. I’m really not sure why you are complaining about this.</p>
<p>Edited to add…
How do you know that $500 is easy for his family to pay? If he has a $0 EFC, his family has a significantly low income and even paying $100 might be difficult for them.</p>
<p>So what? You can apply for anything you please. No rules about that. If he got need based awards from the college, it will almost certainly reduce them starting with the self help and eating into the grants if there is enough. That’ s the way it works.</p>
<p>The one who gets the unfair advantage is the rich kid whose parents can and will pay the full tab like it’s nothing, and when one of those kids gets an outside scholarship, it’s all gravy, and ice cream sundaes. He has all free money since he had no need for it any ways. And a lot of these merit awards to go to full pay kids Most are not super rich so it does help the family enormously, but the need is not there. They are merit so anyone can get them. Trump’s kids could get them.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, if they are providing a full ride, he will be paying taxes on the portion of grants that pays non-qualified expenses. Further, if he has and EFC of 0, in his mind he expected a full ride. Also, from the viewpoint of his family, they are losing money by having him go off to college, because any income he has over the summer is likely to be more than the family is providing in support, and he will no longer be a dependent.</p>
<p>Let’s assume the college has given him grants of $10,000 to cover non-qualified expenses (it is probably more), and he earns $4000 over the summer. He now has $14,000 of income, will owe taxes, and will not be eligible for the American Opportunity Credit (no eligible expenses, unless he makes those scholarships taxable, if he can. Even then it will be break even because he has to then pay more taxes.</p>
<p>Are you saying it would be unethical for any student to apply for outside scholarships if their school meets full need? That’s what it sounds like. Yes, he only has to come up with $500. but for his family that $500 may be just as difficult to come up with as $10,000 for your family. In an EFC=0 family, there is little to no fat. This is sour grapes on your part. If he gets an additional outside scholarship, that’s his business, not yours - or are you afraid he’s going to get something that you think you deserve?</p>
<p>You know, one of my best friend’s EFC is 0 too. However, she is still about 6000$ off (without loans) to be able to afford room and board at one of our state school. So right now, she’s applying to tons of scholarships to be able to pay it. If she doesn’t win enough, she’ll choose a less expensive state school. But yeah…having a 0 EFC doesn’t mean everything is paid for.</p>
<p>The OP seems to have a misperception that anyone who has a full need package from a college should not be applying for outside scholarships. That is not at all the case. It’s perfectly fine to do so.</p>
<p>I think OP’ misperceptions start with his initial premise: “I understand the injustice of being gapped at a high rankings college and being forced to either not go or take out crushing loans.” There’s no “injustice” in not being able to attend a desired college.</p>
<p>One thing to keep in mind is that the student may have to report his outside scholarships to his school, which may then decrease his awards accordingly. Another thing to keep in mind is that someone else’s financial situation is no one’s business but their own. I don’t understand why someone whose college costs are being taken care of would give two figs about another students’ scholarship efforts.</p>
<p>“There’s no “injustice” in not being able to attend a desired college.”</p>
<p>Yes, there is. The injustice is when schools jack up prices artificially to extract money form full payers so as to subsidize other students. This injustice is supported mostly by full payers and near full payer families. Further injustice occurs when schools jack up prices artificially because of government subsidies for grants and loans, which we have been seeing lately, are accumulating towards a new bubble. This injustice is, in a sense, supported not only by full payers, bur also by all taxpayers.</p>
<p>Private schools are not an entitlement. They can do as they please. Nor is boarding at a state school. Room and board is up to your family. Any aid available for those things is discretionary. The top schools probably can jack up their prices easily another 25-50% and still have a line of those begging to get in and pay full price even if those folks have to break their banks.</p>
<p>^
I fully agree that private schools are not an Entitlement. I have been posting quite a lot about this recently. It is quite offensive to say that full payers want an entitlement. Full payers just want some sane, non jacked-up prices.</p>
<p>I will be very clear to you one more time, CPT. You listen to your mind and heart and decide how you want to call this.</p>
<p>When a school gives the full COA to a student, this is probably aid. No doubt about it.
When a school gives a few crumbles to a near full-payer family and call it “aid”… it is not aid. The near full-payer family is fully paying their part and are also subsidizing other families.</p>
<p>I do believe the following:
This system that the government allows schools to run, is on average very prejudicial to consumers (i.e., the students and their families) for two reasons:</p>
<p>1- This system creates lots of uncertainty about the prices in the education market. In other words, this creates asymmetric information. When asymmetric information is present, the most informed parties (in this case the schools) can extract information rents from consumers. A good example of information rents is the differences in Net Costs between schools (refer to the recent posts by Jamiescake). The asymmetric information on prices makes it very costly for consumers to compare prices, and thus they are more likely to accept high-prices, making consumers worse off. </p>
<p>2- The policies allow for an upward distortion in tuition prices that will not be otherwise possible. The upward distortion is further aided by the way we implement public finaid in this country. This creates a spiral that allow other public institutions to jack up their prices as well. I went to a few public institution events in which some school officials mention how the prices of their public institutions are low compared with other colleges/universities. I also saw this argument used by officials to support proposals of increasing tuition for our flagship state school. </p>
<p>Lastly, CPT, you have been contributing very positively to this site, but your thread “What’s With This Entitlement to PRIVATE Colleges?” is really disappointing to me because you are intentionally misrepresenting the viewpoint of other folks in this site. It is disappointing because, as I said, you made so many excellent posts in the past.</p>