The Pansy Academy

Colleges and Universities A-Z Merchant Marine Academy - Kings Point
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<p>I have to agree with the parents who have posted here that the majority of parents and plebe candidates/plebes are supportive of the tried an true methods of USMMA. We and our s were aware of the Special Attention that Plebes can expect (former USN here), and chalk it up to more of the "character building" experience. So KPrower please put your broad paint brush away and don't ASSume that "the plebe parents" at large are complaining to anyone!
And feel free to vent! But in the process try to avoid the broad generaliztions. Listen to those who have gone further down this path than yourself.</p>

<p>Respectfully submitted.</p>

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<p>Now don't go jumping down the poor kids throat for making a generalization. He wasn't directing the comment at anyone in particular and was simply venting. I'm sure he knows full well that not all parents are calling the school complaining.</p>

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<p>KP2001, I agree and didn't mean to jump down KPROWERS throat but in defense of the supportive parents out there it's not pleasant reading that the class is horrible which implies all of them and I'm confident that there are some very squared away plebes in the class of 2012 as in all other classes and as always there will be those who are not. I'd just like to encourage KPROWER to vent less generally. I have tremendous respect for the graduates of USMMA as well as the other SA's and I'm sure most of the upperclassemen are also worthy of respect. No offense intended and understand, believe me where KPROWER is coming from.</p>

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<p>KSMarinerdad, sorry wasn't very clear, I didn't mean for that to be directed at anyone in particular. It was more of a "I see a trend and I'll just point it out" kinda deal more than anything.</p>

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<p>No problem, I do understand and when I was in the USN nuclear power program I saw changes that I didn't always agree with either and know that it is important to allow for venting. No hard feelings here at all. Thanks for serving.</p>

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<p>KSMarinerdad: I know and it's not the whole parents of the Class of 2012 but a select few parents. I don't think that I can pinpoint select parents, so I put "parents" in there. There are those "locked on" plebes and the dirt bag plebes. Trust me, us upperclassmen notice the locked on ones, but your Plebe year is about working together. You don't get accepted alone and recognition is the class as a whole. To get recognized, they must look good as a class and this first month leaves a deep impression and so far the impression isn't that good.</p>

<p>And a result of this temporary "suspension" on IT'ing is 1st Company having to carry their pillow and blankets around because they are babies, I'm sure CTO1 will probably be told to discontinue that because it's "degrading". But times are changing and I guess the Academy has to change also and we (Midshipmen) have to accept it.</p>

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<p>Don't worry Moms and Dads, Cookie Cafe started last Thursday afternoon, and the place was absolutely packed for 5 hours with the sons and daughters you are staying awake worrying about. They were relaxed, laughing, and all talking.</p>

<p>Kings Point, with the tough things, is building character. They will need to be disciplined to get on a ship and have control over millions of dollars worth of cargo, men on the ship, and a huge ship that can do great damage to environment with spills and accidents. We have watched through the years, the discipline at KP transform these men and women into mature, responsible adults. Compare these graduates with many other colleges, where often they are still kids when they graduate.</p>

<p>Sometimes there needs to be course corrections on how things are done, but don't scream about making it too soft, or your son/daughter may not have the opportunity of changing into the disciplined person necessary for big responsibilities in a few short years.</p>

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<p>Thanks KPrower10,
Hang in there, this too shall pass and it sounds like you're fairly grounded so you'll weather the storm. Keep doing what you're doing and I appreciate you and the other upperclassmen. I hope for their sake the class of 2012 gets it figured out and start pulling together so they will earn the right to be recognized as a class. Keep your chin up!
-In your service. KSMarinerdad</p>

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<p>I'm LOL'ing @ this thread.</p>

<p>Original poster: this happens every year...my time was similiar to that of kp2001 as no liberty until parent's day weekend, etc. i'm sure my time was still easier than his.</p>

<p>Everyone else: It's funny when we can sit and ***** about KP and not realize this is the way our poor country is turning. I'm not about to get in a political ****ing match but it's the liberal ideas that are tearing apart everything KP stood for just as they are for America. </p>

<p>It's really sad when I hear people say "i'm voting for Obama even if he has little experience." Come on people, this is the LEADER OF OUR COUNTRY. Hearing "McCain is so old and he was a POW, i'm not voting for him," makes me sick. i'm not sure if it's the fact that most teachers (liberal art majors) are feeding this crap to the youth of America or if its the insanity of "let's keep giving, they keep taking and don't produce because we haven't given them enough" mentality. </p>

<p>KP will inevitably turn into a liberal arts school with more emphasis on English and History classes. </p>

<p>"It's the way of the future."</p>

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<p>"KP will inevitably turn into a liberal arts school with more emphasis on English and History classes. "</p>

<p>...Just like Annapolis!</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>USNA History and English majors are required to take almost twice as many engineering, math, and science courses as several of the KP majors. Try again.</p>

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<p>but those of us that are engineers take twice as many as that. </p>

<p>either way it doesn't really matter. KP and Annapolis are just plain different, so why do we always fall back into these comparisons? both are good schools that produce fine officers!</p>

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<p>Never far from the bait, I see. I think everyone else understood 314's "just like..." comment was said with a wink and a respectful nod. OK,,, everybody but one. Glad to see you continue to be ever-vigilant.</p>

<p>You're busy involved with comparing Apples to Oranges, and insinuating, statistically .... what?</p>

<p>Group III ("Bull") majors at Your Beloved (Economics, English, History, or Political Science) represent about 35% of the Academy's Upperclass). I Since USMMA doesn't offer "Bull" majors, it seems that you are saying that even Your Beloved's "Bull" majors have more engineering required?? Math/Chemistry/Physics appear pretty consistent... </p>

<p>OK.. I'll bite (but for the life I me I wonder why I bother)</p>

<p>Let's look closer, past the 'sound bite'. For English Bull majors, engineering required includes:
EN200-Principles of Ship Performance -- Intro to ship systems, including basic methods of ship procurement, construction, and power plant selection.
EM300-Principles of Propulsion... energy conversion and basic operation of steam, gas turbine, and internal combustion power plants.
EE301-Introduction to AC & DC circuit theory appropirate to model shipboard systems.
EE302-Digital Comm & computer technology-- Basic principles or digital logic circuitry are introduced The principles of analog and digital comm are presented, including some common digital modulation tehniques. ... Other topics include network topology, connectivity, routing, queuing, bandwidth, spectrum utilization, TCPIP and the internet.
ES419- Wepsons System Engineering -- an introduction to applications of RADAR, SONAR, ... principles used in the control of weapons systems.</p>

<p>Yup..
I guess you are hanging your whole argument on.... an English Major taking intro/survey courses to 1) Buying/building a ship, 2) Selecting something to make it go (hopefully fast-ish), 3) that there are digital and analog systems and routers/internet on board, and 4) that the NAVY uses RADAR and SONAR.
(smile-- actually, I am unfairly summarizing the Catalog descriptions,
but...
I don't think foreign terrorists are going to be cowed into submission know that some kid in English is an expert at some of the electives....
HE301 -- Patterns in Drama
HE203 -- Forms of Poetry
HE306 -- Types of Fiction
HE315 -- Satire and Sensibility in the Age or Reason (1660-1780)
HE319 -- The Victorian Frame of Mind</p>

<hr>

<p>And NOWHERE does the experience of Sea Year ( a year at sea doing it all AND integrating what you would refer to as a CAPSTONE-style project ) filter into your BGO classroom grids? You understand ONE of the Academies sooo well, and another one not so much (although that doesn't seems to give you much pause from sharing comments)</p>

<p>You are doing yourself a disservice not be be frank in fair in your statements. Now, don't get me wrong.. you've got the 'frank' part of that pair nailed down... It's the other part that seems to present some difficulty.</p>

<p>You have SUCH good information to share, and such GREAT experiences, it is a shame so many have just skipped your posts due to their bias and, well, prickliness. You seem, however, to be singularly alone in your broad contributions to the numerous service academy forums. But I appreciate your input, even when I have to discard all the colorings/shadings of the charged phrases you employ.</p>

<p>These forums have been such a wealth of support and information for all.. And I have benefited from the great information as well as the shared misery. I do not wish to engage is any prolonged discussion of 'who's better'. That would completely MISS the point -- I won't wrestle with the pig.. I won't win, and it annoys the pig ;) .</p>

<p>I know some EXCELLENT Midshipmen at the Naval Academy -- 4 stripers, pilot wanna-bes, other brilliant & stellar individuals.. And I am heartened at their commitment to serve. And I am saddened by some of the news of Mids who do NOT wear that service and commitment to honor in their hearts, bringing shame to their Academy by 'conduct unbecoming' and courts-martial. Abundant athletic talent in one area should not lower the bar in another for moral leadership. I will grant that all Academies wrestle with this.</p>

<p>I know some EXCELLENT Midshipmen at the Merchant Marine Academy -- pilot wanna-bes, other brilliant & stellar and honorable individuals. And I am heartened by their commitment to serve. </p>

<p>Were one to step foot on the grounds of BOTH Academies, one would recognize it as well.</p>

<p>--</p>

<p>I will NOT disrespect any of the academies, nor the ROTC programs, nor any other selection process. These kids work exceedingly hard, are remarkably dedicated, and I celebrate the honor they bring to themselves, and how they represent our nation. I have seen MANY of their former friends and what is happening to them in colleges. (Not that our kids don't have their own warts and problems... I'll just find some way of encouraging them to do better)</p>

<p>Nor will I be an apologist, somehow allowing any vague sense of superiority or inferiority to color my posts. If I have a bias, it for ALL these academies..</p>

<p>I will simply understand that NOT all paths to service must lead through ONE, "best" gate. And certainly not ALL who proceed through that gate are better than ANY who proceed through other gates. Were that the case, there would only be ONE path. The Navy understands that, and commissions accordingly. There have been STELLAR leaders from ALL commissioning sources.</p>

<p>So, I encourage us ALL to try to add our 2 cents in, with the underlying goal of trying to be helpful, not just 'win' some argument (gosh, if I wanted to see that, I'd just watch some Congressional Coverage on cable ;) )</p>

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<p>bravo zulu Zonk...</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>Not sure the "wink and a respectful nod" was there, but, yes, I, as a SA graduate, which neither of you are, have an opportunity to remain "ever-vigialnt" and, rest assured, I will continue to do so.</p>

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<p>I encourage that. The worst thing would be for you NOT to share.
Just... use your powers for good. ;)
You have SUCH wisdom to share, otherwise it would be wasted ... the more you can be a mentor for all, the better we ALL will be..<br>
There are enough others throwing rocks.</p>

<p>If you read ANY of this with a cynical eye, you'd be missing the point. If you read it with the most positive of spins, you will begin to get what I am trying to say (although I am more of a word-wrestler than a word-smith). Sincerely-Z</p>

<p>PS. Rereading the comment regarding "a wink and a nod". I dunno. Maybe it COULD be taken either way. I hope it was said as such(humorwise), and want to be in the world where MY interpretation would be correct, more positive. Lord, there are enough REAL ACTUAL insults to fend off for the SAs that I just don't have time to interpret POSSIBLE PERCEIVED insults. (I hope that I'm right about that, but I understand more of what you said by your wondering about it).</p>

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<p>We've gone significantly off-topic in this thread. </p>

<p>I respectfully submit that it's productive discussion has been fully developed. (Sorry for my part in the hijacking.)</p>

<p>I'd suspect this closes discussion on the topic (refresh yourself if you need with the original topic post by reading post#1). Everyone, have a good weekend.</p>

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<p>zonker, JRH,</p>

<p>The following two posts were made on this thread:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>zonker seems to think k314 was making a 'respectful' observation. It really doesn't matter. USNA was 'declared' a liberal arts school by US News and World Report so that it would fit into one of their college ranking categories. Profmom2 has made an excellent post over on the USNA forum explaining this. USNA is not a liberal arts school by any other definition. </p>

<p>My post was simply to correct k314's misinformation, 'respectful' or otherwise. My point was that the 30% or so USNA non-technical majors are still required to take a substantial number of science, math, and engineering courses, many more than the KP non-engineering student. Where zonker, with his ignorant tongue-in-cheek comments and personal attacks, was attempting to go, I have no idea. The Navy sails ships with electronics. That the engineering courses are tailored for this eventuality makes perfect sense to me. But USNA is not a school training it's students for civilian careers. Maybe that is the difference.</p>

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<p>69 on sept 6th my son will take an oath. Then same one you did. He will enter into an obligation to our country. That could at the will of the president call him to make the ultimate sacrifice. The regimental battle standard is hard evidence to this truth. The young men and women are being trained for two careers civilian and military. Maybe not the tip of the spear. But a vtial role that gives depth on the bench. We need people who are engaged and committed to defending our country.</p>

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<p>You will note that a number of posts have been removed from this thread as attacking other posters. Feel free to disagree with each other, but in a respectful manner that does not insult others.</p>