There are many TV shows indicating this is not the case. Much of social media indicates this isn’t true as well.
And finances play a significant role in many/most choices for the vast majority of people. Its reality.
This isn’t twitter.
Always amazed how far folks will reach to prove others wrong.
Let’s say a family has the money to send their child to Vandy or Duke or Rice (no money borrowed). Do you consider that a good investment, compared to a much lower cost of attendance, for an in-state school like a Wisconsin or a Maryland?
Who said it was twitter? Though maybe you define social media more narrowly than most.
I know a lot of people who spend a lot of time talking about things they cannot afford. People who love cars often talk about high end cars they cannot afford. Same is true with houses and other luxuries. And people with an interest in college who talk about colleges they cannot afford or into which they could not gain admission. No reach at all in what I said.
I am always amazed at the number of people here who think simplistically that everyone shares their views/experiences.
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I can understand why one would choose Rice over UT-Austin. I don’t think the ROI would be as high but I believe the return would be higher at Rice, and it would be a very good experience with a bit stronger alumni network. A UT honors program could make it a comparable return.
I highly doubt the Rice network is stronger than UT. Folks who don’t live in TX can’t grasp the strength of the UT/A&M/and SMU networks.
And whether the ROI is better at Rice … it is going to depend. You’re assuming because Rice is more prestigious that the ROI is better. ROI is a financial calculation. Let’s leave personal belief and feelings about what is a better experience out of it.
The answer is it depends on the student, on her/his course of study, on whether s/he can take advantage of some extra opportunities a well-endowed private may offer in some areas, and of course, on the cost difference between the programs if it’s material to the family.
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We had the money to send our kid where ever she wanted and fully expected her to go to a private school (she had the stats and would have been third gen at one of the Ivies).
She wanted to study engineering and “knew” she wasn’t going to change her mind. We visited 15 schools including Cornell, CMU, Northwestern, ND, etc… The schools that get lots of love on CC.
She was blown away by the facilities, plan of study, and true collaborative spirit at the big flagships. Her top three schools after all the visits were Purdue, Michigan, and UMD. She chose honors college at Purdue. It’s far and away exceeded all our expectations and we would have gladly paid $75K/year for her to attend. The fact that it’s $40K is just icing on the cake.
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I’m familiar with Rice and know that they have strong placement at i-banks, top strategy consulting firms, med school, startups and whatnot. Therefore, on average, I am confident that the return, or average income, is higher for a Rice grad than a UT grad. If one is upper middle class or higher, they will pay substantially more for their kid to attend Rice than UT so the investment piece of the ROI calculation will be higher and a greater hurdle to overcome.
I hope my S22 can get into Purdue engineering, which would be a very prestigious college for his profile, and I believe the payoff would be high. If not, he could try other options like SMU, FSU, A&M or Auburn. He isn’t getting into Rice but the opportunities would be phenomenal if he could.
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The answer is it depends. The assumption that it is always a good investment is what I have issue with. For many, the benefit isn’t going to be monetary. From a strictly financial perspective, it’s often not a good financial investment. Why people don’t want to acknowledge that is baffling to me. When I look at graduates from my undergrad - a top 10 LAC - decades out, there is no way some/many of those who paid full freight saw a good financial return on their investment.
I could have afforded full pay at any school for my DD. I did not see the value for her. Instead, she took a full ride at a good OOS flagship and I gave her the cost of our in-state flagship to invest. That $100k in 40 years will be worth around $2.5 million. Given that her career trajectory is exactly the same as it would have been had I spent $320k for undergrad, it would have been a terrible investment.
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I have not seen anyone say that? Perhaps I have missed it but from what I have seen posters are somewhere between “often” and “sometimes” makes sense dependent on the kid, circumstances and finances. I don’t recall anyway suggesting a universal conclusion.
Which comment is “baffling”, I am interested to see their logic?
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I went to b-school and many of these kids are there for a career change, which according to you shouldn’t happen right? The Harvard or Yale graduate should be off and running, accumulating wealth and power and influencing the world as only they can. Harvard and Stanford b-school are little different in that they can pick applicants who are doing well, as they tend to look for people who are already managers and you don’t a prestigious degree to be a manager. I know a few Harvard and Stanford MBAs and only a couple went to elite school as being defined in this thread.
As I have been told numerous times recently correlation isn’t the same as causation. The statistics contradict your experience. Nearly 1/4 and 2/5 of HBS and Stanford’s current 2nd years came from Ivy+ per Forbes article I posted up thread.
I am deliberately avoiding referencing my own personal experiences or anecdotes because 1 parents kid or 1 group of associates is meaningless.
You still haven’t answered why they’re in business school and not running a company or in elected office or something else grand.
The “payoff” debate isn’t just for a prestigious college, it’s for any high cost option vs. a much lower cost option.
Wake full pay or IU Kelley?
UT-Austin in-state or Emory (small merit)?
Vandy RD full pay or UT-Austin business in-state?
ED to Vandy or try for UT-Austin in-state?
UT-Austin engineering ($30K+ per year) or TX Tech engineering (free)?
TX A&M business or commute to CC or Stephen F. Austin?
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Your repeated reference to the fact that a significant percentage of Ivy grads end up at HBS and GSB is exactly a correlation equals causation argument. Keep ignoring the significant percentage of HBS and GSB grads who did not go to an Ivy. And keep ignoring the reasons why a significant percentage of Ivy grads end up at HBS and GSB — it’s not just because they attended an Ivy.
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To be honest I was being polite given the apparent confusion as to why people pursue graduate degrees. To advance to the most senior levels and acquire the greatest skill set in many professions further education is either helpful or mandatory.
While your experience may be different most students at top business schools are there because they value and believe they can monetize the specific subject matter.
It seems like a bit of a stretch to try and invalidate the value of a student’s undergraduate experience because of their ability and desire to matriculate into an elite professional school.
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And again putting words in my mouth. I never said “just because”. The entire post details the multiple likely contributing factors that I believe contribute to this statistical over representation.
Rather then the ad homenim reference and your interpretation please site who and where these broad generalizations have been posted.
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I attended CBS and at that time, the top two feeders were Cornell and Michigan, and not surprisingly Columbia undergrad was well represented (maybe #3 but def top 5). It’s interesting that HBS is much higher concentrated with Ivy undergrads.
At CBS, it seemed like a lot of the Ivy+ undergrads hung out together. Was it because they were Ivy+ undergrads or because they’re wealthy and have shared experiences?
Many Wharton undergrads I met through work weren’t going back for an MBA unless it was HBS or Stanford GSB. After all, they already had Wharton undergrads.
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