Thank you! Yes, it’s not all about money. Thank goodness he is in UPenn now.
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But that’s precisely my point: That there are top-tier students to be found at nearly every college and uni in the US.
Now, am I saying that the undergrad experience at Podunk U is equal to that of Harvard? Of course not. But I do think that there is an inflection point somewhere along the ‘prestige’ rankings, above which lies the curve of diminishing returns for many kids.
Certainly, for low income and/or first gen and/or URM kids, it’s true that attending a prestigious undergrad is indeed often a game-changer since it buys them the social capital and entry into the world of the ‘elites’ that they wouldn’t otherwise have. And for the low-income kids who earn full rides to the elites, good on them!
But for my two upper-middle class (but not 1%er), ORM, high-stats kids, the same data (Dale-Krueger) show that their undergrad ‘name’ simply won’t matter that much, if at all. Thus, instead of spending $700K for two full-pay high ‘prestige’ schools, we’d rather save some of that $ for grad school, study abroads, support for unpaid internships, helping them get settled in early adulthood debt-free, etc.
And if others in our financial position prioritize things differently, great. It’s a free country.
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I.e. he was in an elite high school as well…
Depending on career directions, he may end up working in an environment surrounded by non-elite people. Will he handle that well?
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I recall being rejected for a job because (according to the headhunter) the people employed there weren’t that smart and he thought I’d be bored and wouldn’t stay (apparently headhunters only get their full commission if you stay for at least a year).
So it is possible to avoid those situations, deliberately or not!
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What does it mean to be surrounded by “non elite” people?
Honors programs are not all the same. Not by a long stretch. We have friends in the honors program at Indiana and they say it’s a joke. Easier than high school and plenty of students who aren’t all that serious.
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In business honors ?
Liberal arts ? (Hutton Honors ?)
Hutton.
But we know a LOT of kids in the business school and honors and they aren’t exactly serious students either.
Maybe the students are given opportunities that are not mandatory, but could significantly enhance one’s educational experience if utilized ?
In your workplace or social situations, are all of the people you encounter graduates of elite colleges, or otherwise educationally elite in some way (US medical school graduate, US top 14 law school graduate, etc.)?
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It’s different if you’re getting paid to work with or for non-elite grads. But if you’re not comfortable working for a state-school grad say, you could transfer out or change companies.
If you can answer that question…then obviously an elite/prestigious degree is worth more than imagined or can be measured.
By your definition (graduation)…Dell, Jobs, Zuck and plenty of others are not elites.
In my 30 years of working in some very large international organizations, I can tell you the most and least intelligent individuals I’ve worked with both graduated from Penn.
EDIT: I also worked for 2 high school graduates who were brilliant and running multi-billion dollar businesses. They were elite by every measure imaginable…excluding education.
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Didn’t Zuck have some pretty elite people working with him?
Yes, Honors programs vary a lot. At U of Houston they have separate dorms, a full four year roster of classes, advising, lounge area, a Dean, etc. That was a great experience and it seems like some large public universities have a similar set up.
Less educated colleagues seem to trust their experience more than data modeling and distrust consulting. They’re often command and control types.
So its ok being around commoners/riff-raff/dimwits if you are being paid to do so. Got it.
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So people are “non-elite” if they didn’t graduate from a prestigious educational institution?
Isn’t it more relevant whether or not they are interesting and enjoyable to work with/for (often but not always correlated with intelligence)?
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Attending a “prestigious” college doesn’t make you elite. It makes you academically talented, ambitious and perhaps gifted at one or more non-academic pursuits (music, athletics). I’ve known brilliant and talented graduates of mediocre schools and dimwits from the Ivy League (and vice versa, of course). Being good at school doesn’t always translate to being good at life. Unfortunately, there is a sub set of Ivy grads (and the like) that have a sense of superiority/entitlement which is off putting (like the Harvard grads who seem to work in the fact that they attended Harvard within the first 5 minutes of meeting you . .)
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The ones who have to constantly remind others of their background almost universally aren’t the best in their fields.
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A challenging cocktail party game is trying to guess “Who’s from Harvard?” before they tell you they went to Harvard. Almost as challenging with a few others.
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At our family dinners the elites seem to get along just fine with the non elites.
Except when the Delaware grad asserts her superiority given our current Presidents U Delaware Blue Hen legacy to our Ivy leaguer whose alum are well represented in the cabinet.
In spite of the “huge” gaps in our elite credentials we manage to love and care for one another.
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You can also play a game of which of the known Harvard grads will mention it first. Kinda like the fresh fish game in Shawshank.
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