Totally agree. Every student’s goal should be to graduate with zero debt. For many, some debt will be needed but in every case the goal should be to assume minimal debt.
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Actually I would never suggest someone is a better parent based on where their kid goes to school. Similarly I don’t think I did a better job with one child versus my others who didn’t attend elite schools.
I was responding directly to your early comment about elite schools when you stated “getting in is the hardest part”.
It demeans the hard work required to excel at these schools. People whose kids don’t get in have a confirmation bias for believing such things while those who see the kids work hard have a bias to think otherwise. FYI I am equally proud of my other kids and recognize how hard they worked.
Sorry to have hit an apparent nerve.
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I don’t understand why you think stating what’s pretty much an accepted truth — that it’s harder to get in than graduate — is demeaning to the students who attend. I just don’t see the connection. Just because they work hard doesn’t mean it’s not easier to graduate than get accepted. Just look at the acceptance rate and what it took to get accepted and compare that to the graduation rate and average GPAs of graduates. I really don’t see this as controversial.
Because you are talking about graduating and I have been talking about thriving academically and getting a high GPA.
Basically talking past one another. 50% on me.
But note that parents have enormous influence on where (or whether) their kids go to college. A big factor is parent financial circumstances and choices that are the main limitation that most prospective college students face in their choice of college. The student’s own achievements only matter within the limitations of parent financial circumstances and choices.
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Graduating with a high GPA because of grade inflation makes what we’re saying still true — easier to get out than get in. I understood you perfectly.
Couldn’t agree with you more, that kids attend state schools etc and can be extremely successful. I didn’t say otherwise.
And I agree no debt is hugely important.
My point is that people who can afford to be full pay are choosing elite colleges over state schools (as a rule). My point is, why? Are they all deluded, or does an elite degree confer certain benefits that a middle pack degree doesn’t?
As a rule? What evidence do you have to support that statement? The numbers just don’t support that.
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I don’t think there’s anyone here who would disagree with you.
Students should run net price calculators rather than speculate about how much a particular college may cost them, however. Highly selective private universities like Harvard have excellent financial aid and are less expensive for some students than their in-state public universities. A fair number have eliminated loans for some of the students receiving financial aid, and a dozen or so of the top universities have eliminated loans entirely, starting with Princeton twenty years ago.
Personally, I came from a low income family and wound up at Duke because it was cheaper than Carolina for me.
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Ok but if Davidson is great at giving all this personalized attention, why have they had no other nba draft picks after Steph? And wouldn’t more kids and their parents choose Davidson after seeing Steph’s success? I think your better analogy may be to use a college like Gonzaga to prove your point, not a once in a generational player. Even Seth and his parents, particularly his dad, a former NBA player, did not choose Davidson again.
You are basing this statement on what?
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Note that Steph Curry was the third point guard chosen in the 2009 NBA draft, after Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn: 2009 NBA Draft | Basketball-Reference.com
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It provides a name for those where “name brand” makes a difference - same as fashion, food, wine, or anything else.
And as with anything else, sometimes there is a meaningful difference and sometimes it’s all in the packaging/marketing. But if someone believes name brand is important, then they get to put a dollar value on how much it is worth to them via cost or loans.
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“Graduating with a high GPA because of grade inflation makes what we’re saying still true — easier to get out than get in. I understood you perfectly.”
I was being gracious in my attempt at reconciliation.
I will defer to your authoritative view as to which takes more effort getting in vs getting good grades in spite of your absence of first hand experience and in deference to mine. I will go tell my kid his experience and those of his peers is not what he thinks.
I will be interested to see if this “it’s easier to get in” view is shared by your daughter once she matriculates at Stanford B.
Why do you keep discounting my first hand experience? I attended not one but 2 top 10 schools. For anonymity purposes I won’t say which ones. But I will say that I’m probably one of the youngest parents on CC, so my experience is current enough.
And fyi, it is also true that graduating from Stanford GSB (where my DD was admitted) is much easier than getting in. Why are you so hurt by this?
I am not hurt, I just find it curious that you are so confident that your perspective or experience is representative of everyone who attends an elite schools experience.
In terms of your experience and youth I would respectfully assume that with a daughter entering B-school your undergraduate college tenure ended no later then 2000. That’s the same year Keven Spacey won a best actor award for American Beauty. Things have changed.
Once again not hurt. I have the capacity to disagree respectfully and accept that others real time first hand experiences may be different then my perceptions or outdated experiences.
And you would be wrong. 
And what has happened over the years since I graduated is … more grade inflation.
The payoff for those who come from lower income backgrounds, first generation and from underrepresented groups, is huge. Financial aid is amazing.
Someone in admissions at Harvard once said the opportunities offered at elite schools benefit these kids more than the (typical in the past) kids from, say, a private school (which are now more diverse as well).
This entire discussion is geared to families who can pay full price and want to assess whether it is worth it. I have no idea. But for anyone on financial aid, who would not otherwise have contact with professors and peers of this calibre, of course the payoff is incredible.
AND Regardless of career outcome.
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And often people with real time first hand experiences have different experences than other people with real time first hand experiences. Most of life is nuanced.
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“Most of life is nuanced.”
I completely agree. That is why I suggested we were talking past each other and that 50% of that was on me. Unfortunately I was told I was 100% wrong.
We see and experience things uniquely and that doesn’t invalidate what others see or experience. There can be different views and opinion which is why I avoid saying things like you are wrong.