<p>I was wondering if people could tell me more about the philosophy-Neuroscience-psychology program. It is something that attracted me to Wash U and made me apply there. I was just wondering if people know if it is difficult? Is it a respectable major? Is it a good track to do if you want to do pre-med also? If somebody could answer these then that would be a great service. Thanks in advance</p>
<p>Well, I don’t go there or anything, but I’m also interested in it. I thought it was brilliant and it also really attracted me to WashU. However, I got a really funny reaction when I visited this weekend…might answer your questions sort of.</p>
<p>WUStudent: What do you want to do if you come here?
Me: PNP I guess…
WUStudent: Cool!!! PNP is the best major ever. It’s so awesome that’s interdisplinary. You should really do it.
Me:Oh, I know, I love the idea. Are you PNP…?
WUStudent: Um, well, I was PNP before…(here’s where the answers vary) I switched to Psych. We have a really awesome Psych program/there were too many requirements, and I wanted to double major/I decided I hated psych…a lot…but you should still do it! It’s great!
Me: Um, ohhh…</p>
<p>So basically, I think it’s good if you are genuinely interested in each of the 3 disciplines. It doesn’t really seem to work for people who like one much better than the other two. It seems pretty respected, and people said that PNP especially (of all the sciences) has some really awesome research opportunities. No one really said anything about difficulty, just that it took lots of effort to complete all the requirements. It seems to be great for pre-med since I think many of the requirements coincide with each other. It really seems to be a jumping point for a lot of people…they started in PNP, and found that Psych or just pre-med without a science major was their passion. I think this happens because it’s so easy to change majors and even schools at WashU. Many of them advised at least coming in as PNP and taking Intro to Cog Sci as well as a Philosophy course and a Psych course to figure out if you would do well in PNP or as something else. Hope this helped!</p>
<p>My D is a double major in P-N-P and a foreign language. She is also taking the premed prereqs. There is no “premed” major at WashU. “Premed” means you are taking the premed prereqs that are required at medical schools you could see yourself applying to and courses that prepare you for the MCAT. These are courses such as chem, orgo, bio, physics, calculus, etc., but they are not a “major”. You use these courses to either fulfill a requirement of your major or as elective courses. P-N-P is interesting in that it lets you explore three areas in the confines of one major. Yes it is difficult - some classes moreso than others. As someone said, there are no easy courses at WashU.</p>
<p>Here is the WashU P-N-P site - [Undergraduate</a> | PNP at Washington University in St. Louis](<a href=“http://artsci.wustl.edu/~pnp/undergrad/index.html]Undergraduate”>http://artsci.wustl.edu/~pnp/undergrad/index.html)</p>
<p>Yea, I know that pre-med is not a major, its just a track. But I also wanted to double major with PNP and a language so it makes me happy to hear that your D was able to do both. I’ll have to rethink the PNP major though because my true passion is Neuroscience which attracted me to the program and psychology is cool too, but we will see about philosophy. I’m not too interested, but you’re right, I can always switch to a different major/school so that’s good. Thanks. Anyone else?</p>
<p>joelyam2 - I was responding to princessbell’s statement about changing your major to “premed” without a science major, not anything you said.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My daughter has found the philosophy portion to be pretty tough. Having never taken a philosophy course (since you don’t usually see them in high school), she has had to learn a completely new way to write papers, etc. A lot of courses at WashU require that of you - to stretch and grow in ways you didn’t think possible.</p>
<p>Midwest Parent - to be fair to Princessbell, I don’t think she claimed premed was a major either. I interpret what she said to mean to be on a premed track but not have your major be in science. For example, you can fulfill all the med school prerequisites and be a philosophy or history or English major (that would be premed without a science major) or be premed and a chemistry or biology or psych major, as I imagine most premed’s are. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a premed major anywhere in the USA, but I certainly have not researched every school’s offering on this.</p>
<p>Not trying to be difficult, I enjoy your comments quite a bit. I think you just misread what she was saying.</p>
<p>FC - not trying to be difficult either. Just wanted to clarify. There are many out there who still believe “premed” or “prelaw” are actual majors.</p>
<p>Midwest Parent - absolutely. It was always kind of funny to see the look of confusion when they found out they actually had to pick a “real” major.</p>
<p>Yeah, to clarify, I didn’t mean that pre-med was a major lol…I meant people who do stuff like English, sociology, etc. and still complete pre-med reqs…</p>
<p>Yea, I like it when people try to tell me its a major and I just laugh. I also laugh when they try tosay that you don’t need to take phys or orgo (= but anyways, anyone else have opinions on the PNP?</p>
<p>PNP can be a very interesting major. If you choose it as a major, you make one of 2 choices - it will either have a social science focus (philosophy & psychology) or a science focus (neuroscience). I personally know of one student who started as pre law or pre med - chose PNP and ended up expanding that into a triple major of PNP, Psychology and Spanish. Ended up doing research in junior year, summer after junior year and senior year. The variety of choices is very wide.</p>
<p>The two tracks are actually called Cognitive Neuroscience (CN) and Language, Culture, and Cognition (LCC).</p>
<p>I’m a junior PNP major. The Language culture and cognition track is for people interested in more anthropology and linguistics oriented interests, the Cognitive neuroscience track is for people interested in cognitive science, biological psychology, and neuroscience. The CN track is designed to be good for pre-meds and biology double majors (although I am neither) because many of the PNP major courses coincide with biology and pre-med courses. </p>
<p>In my opinion, PNP classes are much more difficult and rigorous than psych courses (although there is some overlap–many psych courses count towards the PNP major). Moreover, I think PNP professors tend to be more involved in helping students. The PNP program is very well-known in the field because it’s a unique major, and because it tends to produce graduates that can think (because of the philosophy requirement) as well as conduct good research in a lab. </p>
<p>If you’re not that into philosophy, PNP can still be a useful major. At a minimum you only have to take 3 philosophy courses. Classes that count include things like philosophy of the mind, philosophy of neuroscience, and bioethics, so if you’re more science oriented I assure you they’ll still be interesting. However, getting all the requirements done can be a little tricky since there are very specific courses one has to take. My advice if you’re considering the major is to take Inquiry into the Cognitive Sciences and if you like the class keep going.</p>
<p>One more thing, if you like one area of PNP more than the others then you do your depth requirement in that field–i.e. you take several upper level courses focusing on that area, so it’s not all breadth.</p>
<p>lk456, if i were to become a PNP major with a CN focus, just how much writing is required in those psychology and philosophy classes? I’ve never taken a psych class so I really don’t know what to expect. The philosophy class i’m taking now has us reading several books and writing a few “fun” essays exploring different philosophies. Is the grading at WashU on philosophy papers very harsh? How difficult is it to get an A in a psych or phil class?</p>
<p>Well, you only have to take one writing intensive class. I’m taking a cognitive neuroscience writing-intensive class in which I have to write 3 papers (3-5 pages) throughout the course of the semester. It’s mainly focused on writing scientific papers and reviews, so it’s pretty useful and it’s not very difficult to get a good grade (although I am learning a lot, and it does take more work than a normal class). Typically philosophy classes require you do about 40 pages of reading a week and to write 2-3 papers a semester. Papers are the bulk of what comprises your final grade for the class. In the 100 level philosophy and psychology classes it’s really easy to get an A (with the exception of Intro to Logic, although I’d highly recommend that course). As for the upper level philosophy courses, it depends on your professor, but most classes aren’t going to kill your gpa. The material in the upper level courses can be very difficult, but generally if you do your work and show your professor that you’re thinking about the issues being discussed you’ll get a good grade. However, some of the best professors in the department are more stingy about grades, so sometimes you have to choose between being in a class with a really great professor who makes you work more and taking an average run of the mill class and having less work. Most psych courses are less focused on writing. Usually most of your grade is based on exams and quizzes, although sometimes you have to write papers too. As I am in the CN track, most of my psych classes are more biology-oriented, so I spend a lot of time studying facts about neurons, how different neurotransmitters interact with receptors, anatomy of the brain, etc. It’s also important to note that a lot of required PNP classes are sort of a hybrid of psych, neuroscience, and philosophy courses in which you’ll be reading psychology research papers and discussing things like whether the researchers used a good experimental design, what the implications of the experiment are for the rest of the field, what could be improved, and so on.</p>
<p>It sucks that there isn’t a track for people who are more interested in philosophy! I guess because it doesn’t really mesh very well with psych and neuro. I might end up starting out PNP and changing to philosophy alone. Plus, I was reading that PNP requires 40 credits!!! That’s a full third of all my classes at WashU. Most avg. majors only want 27. I’d like to double with WGSS, so philosophy might be the way to go…but we’ll see!</p>
<p>“I guess because it doesn’t really mesh very well with psych and neuro”</p>
<p>No, that’s a misconception. The field of cognitive science was founded largely because of philosophy. Philosophers doing work related to psychology and neuroscience include Daniel Dennett, David Chalmers, John Searle, and in the PNP department specifically Carl Craver, John Heil and Jose Bermudez among others. There isn’t a philosophy track in the PNP program because you can choose to do your depth requirement (9 credits of upper level course work) and thesis in philosophy. Also keep in mind the LCC track is perhaps better suited for students interested in Philosophy of Language, and the CN track for Philosophy of the Mind and Philosophy of Science. But if you are looking for more of an overview of all philosophy, the philosophy department is probably a better fit.</p>