<p>“Proudwolverine, I am not talking about reputation in academic or professional circles. In that regard, Michigan is still considered a top 10 university. I am talking about public perception. And Cal, in that regard, like Michigan, is not considered as strong as it once was. Cal would also benefit from privatization.”</p>
<p>Alexandre, wasn’t it you who said that what matters isn’t what the “public” thinks but it’s what the academic and corporate world think? You said it like a year ago hehehe. But I agree with you, the future of the University is not looking that good, all simply because of the bias of the USNWR ranking and the declining state support for the university. This is one of the reasons why Michigan isn’t even on my target MBA schools list. Don’t get me wrong, as an OOS senior who has paid a lot of money to attend this university, I love my undergrad education here in Michigan, but I don’t think this university has that much of a bright future the way it is now, hopefully I’m wrong though. It’ll indeed be sad to witness the demise of what was once one of the nation’s very own elite universities in the future.</p>
<p>^ it doesn’t matter what the public thinks when you apply for grad school or a job. </p>
<p>however, the public perception can influence the amount and quality of students that choose to attend michigan. if the public perception falls, the quality of students will fall, and then the reputation in the academic and corporate world will fall.</p>
<p>privatization will happen, it’s only a matter of time, most taxpayers the state of michigan would rather have msu as the flagship than to pay 25% more for michigan’s education. I don’t think anyone is really thinking about this yet tho, but 50 years from now, I think Michigan will be a private University, with an enrollment slightly larger than Cornell. People in the state don’t appreciate it, and what it does for the state, Michigan has enough breadth and alumni base to transform itself into an excellent private university. From a funding perspective, it already has begun taking steps to operate more like a private university.</p>
<p>I agree kb10. I just noticed how USC is now rated a better overall graduate school in engineering than Michigan. They are jobbing the ratings and USNWR is letting them get away with it. Someone really needs to reel in this organization and call them out. It is getting to the point of ridiculousness.</p>
<p>ProudWolverine, I agree that what matters to current and recent graduates is the opinion of Academe and corporate America. The general public’s opinion will not impact those students and alums. And students who graduate in the next 10-15 years will be safe and benefit greatly from their Michigan education. However, in the long term, Michigan will take a hit if it does not seriously alter its course. Michigan can only be ranked out of the top 20 or top 25 for so long before its reputation takes a hit. I am being overly critical and harsh, but my expectations and standards are impossibly high. I expect Michigan to retain its position as one of the World’s great universities.</p>
<p>kb10, people think Michigan is private because the tuition is so high. It was already near $20,000 for in-state residents when I was applying to colleges years ago. In fact, Michigan is now the most expensive public university in the country.</p>
<p>I would hate for Michigan to go private, but if it must do so for stability and reputation, I will support it. It will join Northwestern as the second private university in the Big Ten conference. :D</p>
<p>As for Michigan State, yes some MI residents prefer East Lansing because it’s cheaper and easier to gain admittance. Believe it or not, some MI residents see Michigan as elitist. However, it has its own strengths and it’s not an overall top-ranked university.</p>
<p>The state of Michigan really needs a new economy. In fact, our governor is so desperate to revitalize the economy, but the workers are simply not here (only 25% of Michigan residents have a 4-year degree.) Michigan’s reputation is sliding just as Detroit’s dominance on the auto market is declining. Maybe if Michigan becomes private and accepts ~25% in-state students (the rest out-of-state), the state can pull talent from other areas and have them reside here and rebuild the economy.</p>
<p>the other thing i find troubling is the financial aid structure at Michigan. </p>
<p>People picking Michigan from OOS tend to be poor or rich, if you are middle class, you will probably end up with better financial aid offers from other Universities of Michigan’s caliber. </p>
<p>From my time at the University, most of the instate students tend to come from the best high schools in Michigan, and tend to be in the upper income bracket. So the money really isn’t serving the majority of the tax payers, only a select few. Also, the money that the state gives to the University could be used to strengthen the K-12 education system, or give more funding to the other Universities in the state. </p>
<p>If UM becomes a private University, it would still be located in the state of Michigan, and I would imagine it can still contribute to the state economy positively.</p>
<p>That presumes all the instate students would still want to come to UM. At those rates they might prefer MSU, another B10 school where OOS would actually be lower–say Wisconsin or Illinois or Indiana, or a private school with better aid for star or middleclass students. You might just lose half the students.</p>
<p>I agree with Alexandre that Michigan needs take serious steps to maintain its reputation as one of the best academic institutions in the world. </p>
<p>Privatizing might be a way to do that. Short of privatizing I think UM should eliminate any in-state quota. I don’t believe Michigan should have classes with 65% in-state when those in-state students are generally less qualified. The quotas might be okay for California universities where there’s so many qualified in-state students, but not in a small state like Michigan.</p>
<p>Under my proposal, in-state students would still get discounted public school tuition, but they would need to compete on a level playing field with OOS applicants for admittance. This would not only likely raise the numbers of each entering class, it would most likely help UM gain additional tuition money from OOS students. UM can use that money to offer bigger financial aid packages to the students most in need.</p>
<p>I think Michigan should lower its undergrad population to 55% and OOS population to 45% at the undergraduate level. It could still maintain its public affliation, but it will also yield more money to compete with peer schools. It will still serve the state’s interests, but more OOS students can attend and possibly stay after graduation to rebuild the state economy.</p>
<p>Michigan already operates as a quasi-public institution anyways.</p>
<p>I have never seen any breakdown of insttae vs OOS student stats. I’d guess they are closer than many think. I’d guess 1300 SAT and 28-29 ACT. Just a shade below the OOS numbers excluding AA admits.</p>
<p>It’s not that much different. I’d say 1320, 29 ACT, 3.9 GPA. But the question here isn’t just about student profile. This state funding issue effects a variety of other things, including faculty/researcher retention.</p>
<p>The differtence in averages between IS and OOS students is probably not that great. However, the difference in the 25th percentile (GPA and SAT/ACT) is probably significant.</p>
<p>Actually, folks, this Michigan Daily article suggests that there is a slightly higher IN STATE admit GPA, with a SLIGHTLY lower in-state subsequent performance: </p>
<p>According to an analysis of the 2007 freshman class, students from the state of Michigan had an average high school GPA of 3.8, while out-of-state students earned a 3.67.</p>
<p>SO, I’ve heard a lot of talk on this board about how much more highly qualified OOS candidates are than in-state. Were this assumption true, then it has changed radically in a year, according to the statistics. Even in terms of subsequent UM GPA, there is not a huge gap in terms of the “average” student (although I’m sure that gap widens significantly at 25/75th percentiles : )
What isn’t factored into the stats above is whether those GPAs are coming from a comprehensive public school with grade inflation, or coming from an IB program or a OOS High School with a high degree of rigor and much lower GPAs (which would seem to be the case with many OOS applicants.)</p>
<p>At any rate, it seems the IS/OOS assumptions are not iron clad. In fact, you could argue that they’re not especially valid.</p>
<p>One further note - the above was only meant to clarify re: IS/OOS not so much in this thread, but to confirm what the above posters were guessing with stat/fact.</p>
<p>On the thread topic, I have very mixed feelings. This school would not have been accessible to my son as a private. I agree the State of Michigan is not carrying its weight fiscally (don’t get me started on the topic of education funding in MI, which, under Proposal A, has schools like Bloomfield funded at $13,500 foundation versus $7,500 for an Urban school, where they need the money the most. Apparently, poor students are disposable here…and this is not a phenomenon unique to Michigan…)</p>
<p>At the same time, I feel the U of M philosophy and character is more fitting a public entity.
I was born in Canada, and despite years here as a permanent resident soon to become a citizen, I have a terrible time seeing the negative consequences of what I view to be a problem that flows from state-rights and a lack of centralized federal policy. These consequences are most poignant in education. For example, what if there were no such thing as IN STATE or OUT OF STATE tuition. If state university education funding were pooled and distributed by a federal body equally, would that not offer a lot more equity to all American students (at least in terms of public institutions)??? Then, any student in the country from any socioeconomic background could choose the public school and program that was the best “fit.” It just seems more equitable to me. This whole in-state/out of state thing seems absolutely crazy to me.
Just my .02. Realize this isn’t happening.
Cheers,
K</p>