Yes, this is the same with our middle income family. T10/ T20 schools offered D22 much more financial aid than the UC schools (we are in California) and more than any other schools where she got merit aid. My S24 will be applying to a number of T20 schools as well specifically because they are more affordable for us. Both of my children would love to go to UC schools but we can’t afford them without loans.
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Totally agree! Seen so much of this in our area. I attribute it to a “private is great, public is bad” mindset. Often coupled with “in-state flagship is bad, anything outside is better”.
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There are lots of “it depends”. The general areas you may be considering are:
- Quality and fit of academic offerings. These may vary across schools (and not necessarily in a private elite school’s favor over a state school, depending on which private elite college and which state school and the student’s academic preferences and characteristics).
- Outcomes after graduation regarding employment or graduate/professional school placement. Some directions are very elitist with respect to undergraduate college, while other directions are much less elitist or not elitist at all (or may have a different ranking of colleges). What matters is if the student is interested in the more elitist directions.
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It completely depends. An English major who wants to teach elementary school – elite school not necessary, I’d imagine. English major who ends up wanting to work for the NY Times, or in publishing – probably makes a big difference!
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The same can be asked of engineering. All objective evidence would suggest no, IF we’re talking about practicing traditional engineering and not using the degree as an entry into finance.
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Many (most?) parents want their kids to do better than what the parents did. But, for upper middle class (as the term is typically used here, probably top 5% income or SES) parents, there is not much room to move up, but plenty of room to move down. The kids may also realize that the life they had growing up in a $300k income family may be too expensive on a more typical $30-70k new college graduate pay level, so they may be more likely to aim for elite pay level career directions.
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Undergraduate obviously varies widely in cost (especially when considering financial aid). Some students may get full rides, while others may (in the US) be paying $91k per year.
However, PhD programs worth attending are generally full rides with tuition waivers and living expense stipends (although the stipends relative to local cost of living may vary in generosity), since the PhD student is basically and apprentice researcher and teacher doing presumably useful work in those areas.
On the other hand, professional schools (e.g. medicine, dentistry, other health care, law, business) are typically very expensive.
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Most students do not get admitted to elite schools.
You can easily look this up. NYT lists all their contributors. I pulled the bios of everyone I read and only a single one went to an elite school (Ross Douthat - Harvard).
EDIT: 2 (Michael Barbaro - Yale)
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I believe their reporters/editors disproportionately attended elite schools.
And, I’m focused more on initial jobs out of college. It takes awhile, and much experience elsewhere, to become an op-ed contributor!
You are asking if the marginal benefit is worth the marginal cost.
You also want to consider opportunity costs.
Okay. But for whom?
For many the costs of these schools might be lower than in-state public options, or very close. I assume you’d like to set those aside, even though this might be half or more of students at HYPSM.
So, talking only about those not receiving aid at these schools: These are likely income levels starting around 150-200k/year. Many quite a bit higher than that. Most (not all) in this category will have significant savings and net worth. To the point where daily fluctuations in the stock market often affect their net worth more than the tuition bill does.
That does not mean an extra 50k/year is peanuts. But I think to truly assess marginal cost and opportunity cost you need to specify the conditions you’re talking about. Daily market fluctuations generally do not cause changes in the spending habits of (most, not all) full pay Harvard parents. It’s not clear what opportunities that extra 50k/year is really costing them.
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Again, easily verified. You don’t have to “believe.” Yale has a disproportionate representation, but no other “elite” schools do. People in executive and reporter positions at the NYT come from all sorts of schools, including FL A&M, Ohio, Montana State, etc.
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Opportunity costs have to be amortized over the length of a career to assess the total impact of that decision.
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The "Is it worth it " discussion is complicated. I think from a financial return of investment, many (most) students and families, would have been better off saving $200k and what it would grow to, for some others, it wouldn’t. But how we spend our money is really a personal decision and worth it is different for every family. I do not judge any family that sends their high-stat kid to a school where they get a lot of merit aid or their in-state college. Personally, growing up middle class, I admire that. But for those with the means that send their kids to private schools (whatever their rankings) or OOS public, I don’t judge them either (I am one of them). There are non-financial considerations. And for those who take student loans, they should not be judged either, it is their lives (I also was one of them). I do think this forum is helpful for students and families that have a budget and need advice on scholarships and aid, but in deciding what’s worth it, that’s up to the family, not a forum.
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I’ve seen this too. Kids attending much pricier private options that aren’t as academically strong as the state flagship.
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In many parts of the country it would be tough for a family making $150/200k to afford a school costing $90k
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And TBH, I’m just not seeing a lot of state colleges here, flagship or otherwise:
Best Universities and Colleges | Payscale
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Yes, but not just at Harvard. You can think of PhD like an apprenticeship. They are students but also workers. Typically in exchange for funding students work as TAs and research assistants.
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THIS is a massive issue in our country.
We all likely know someone making this mistake. I work with someone who has always had money problems. His son had a full ride to a SUNY but he is paying the full boat for his kid to attend the University of Miami. Madness.
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Sure. But as an example I ran the NPC at Princeton for a CA family with an AGI of 200k, non retirement savings of 200k, one child in school. Home equity isn’t considered. That family would pay 27k at Princeton.
Cost would increase with additional non-retirement savings and I do agree that there are families in this situation. But it’s a very small subset of families at these schools.
I think the discussion is sort of meaningless without specifying family circumstances. (OP suggested the example of spending 50k a year on enrichment activities, which likely isn’t realistic or likely for the families you have in mind).
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