The STEM surplus

<p>I don't know if this has been covered here, but at CC it seems that STEM is the holy grail. I've cut and pasted some of it - but there's more at both links.</p>

<p>The</a> STEM Surplus, Ctd « The Dish</p>

<p>The</a> STEM Surplus « The Dish</p>

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I’ve got a PhD in chemical engineering and I work in early drug discovery. I’m actually doing pretty well. I’m in a specialized field that doesn’t tend to attract folks (I do a lot of math). My wife, however, is a different story. She has a PhD in oncological sciences – a molecular biologist with a speciality in cancer development and treatment. She spent six years getting a PhD, but really the best she can hope for is a $40K/year job as a post doc, which she will most likely have to do for at least four years in order to get a job making about $100-110K/year. By then she will be about 40.

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<p>I don’t think CC folks think STEM is the Holy Grail. There have been threads about the glut of biology and chemistry majors with few job prospects.</p>

<p>Engineering, on the other hand, is different. You don’t need a PhD to make good money as a EE, MechE or ChemE graduate.</p>

<p>You should put the excerpts inside the quotes. I thought you and your wife have PhD. It really ****ed me off.</p>

<p>Coolweather, about the excerpts, I would put them in quotes, but I can’t edit anymore. But I’ll remember for next time, thanks. But why would it **** you off? (And FYI, I’m a woman, and no PhD in sight.)</p>

<p>Mom2college kids, I know not everyone thinks STEM is the be-all and end-all. But I’ve seen many threads here where both kids and parents are looking at STEM as a guaranteed job. The links show that even for some engineers, the situation isn’t always that great. I just thought it was applicable to this site.</p>

<p>It is the S part (particularly biology and chemistry) where the job market is usually the worst for job seekers. In the TEM parts, the job market is usually better, but subject to industry and economic cycles (like most jobs). The post #1 unquoted quote from the chemical engineer married to a biologist shows the contrast between the S and E.</p>

<p>I have added the quote notation. I have also shortened the quoted material to comply with our Terms of Service.</p>

<p>Chedva
Moderator</p>

<p>“Coolweather, about the excerpts, I would put them in quotes, but I can’t edit anymore. But I’ll remember for next time, thanks. But why would it **** you off? (And FYI, I’m a woman, and no PhD in sight.)”</p>

<p>What cool weather is saying is that without the quotes it was assumed this was about you. Without the quotes and not opening the links, I assumed too that this was about you and was wondering why you made the above comment. So I opened the link.</p>

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<p>Oh I sincerely disagree. I think the majority of people on CC (I’m talking on ALL of CC- not just the Parent section) believe that STEM is the Holy Grail and everything else is useless. </p>

<p>I say this as a Humanities person who has been here for a very long time- frequenting all sections of CC.</p>

<p>That mirrors the broader population which generally assumes that the only worthwhile majors are business and STEM (see the intended majors of incoming freshmen at most non specialized schools).</p>

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Perhaps not, but engineering is not guaranteed, either. Back in the dark ages (the '70s and '80s), engineers were laid off in the thousands. It was the absolutely worst career to go into.</p>

<p>Just because it’s a good career today (maybe because of all the kids who didn’t go into it back then), doesn’t mean that it will continue to be a career in which you can “make good money.”</p>

<p>Completely agree that people here believe that STEM, especially engineering, sets you for life. I was told the same in the late 80s. Well, the early 90s proved that to be completely wrong. I believe it is worse now because today’s graduates compete against the world, H1b visa holders and unemployed experienced engineers.</p>

<p>Thanks for fixing my post, Chedva. Sorry my quoted text was too long!</p>

<p>I found it interesting in the first link where he said there is no STEM shortage; there is a shortage of people willing to work for what companies want to pay. And then he talked about HB1 visas. </p>

<p>I think the shortage of people willing to work for what companies want to pay is a problem certainly seen in more than STEM jobs. I’ve seen this in my own field (Marketing/Advertising) where ads ask for someone who can write, design, figure out the budget, write marketing plans, and create the media plan – and they want to pay in the thirties. But I didn’t know that the problem of “I want a highly experienced person perfect for my exact position but I want to pay them an entry level salary” had reached some engineering fields.</p>

<p>The reality is TEM. But the sciences are prerequisites for tech jobs and engineering. Math has surprising applications. Also- a PhD is no longer a job ticket- oops, it never was. A college friend found she was too well educated for some computer science jobs even if she only had an MS in that after her PChem PhD decades ago. “Piled higher and Deeper” seems to apply for problems in having job flexibility using narrow skills obtained with years of study. It even applies to physicians- unlike nurses we can’t do just any field and learn area specific skills on the job unless it is another residency.</p>

<p>We need many in TEM fields- but not always the most educated. Perhaps my gifted son is best off working in a comp sci job instead of math grad school- his job has a lot of intellectual peers. People we know with PhDs don’t always have jobs. Still hoping son elects to get a masters, he’s young.</p>

<p>It really is not accurate to say that there is or is not a “STEM” shortage when the various subjects that “STEM” covers can be so different in the labor markets.</p>

<p>STEM is like athletics. Either you are good and everyone needs you … or you are mediocre and you are stuck with $ 40,000-80,000 jobs.</p>

<p>Same goes for lawyers, for example. A good lawyer can make half a million per year, year after year. A mediocre lawyer will make $100,000. A bad lawyer would chase ambulances, hoping to get a client.</p>

<p>It really doesn’t matter what degree the OP’s wife has. It could be molecular biology, it could be engineering. If she doesn’t have enough good publications, she is stuck at the postdoc level.</p>

<p>On the positive side, postdocs often have free housing and free day care at major universities (if their household income is low).</p>

<p>"I believe it is worse now because today’s graduates compete against the world, H1b visa holders and unemployed experienced engineers. "</p>

<p>And if the current version of Immigration Reform legislation passes, there will be even more H1b engineering and math workers available in the U.S. market. I’m not saying that it is good or bad - just saying that kids going to college should have this information.</p>

<p>No degree, ever, would <em>guarantee</em> a $100,000 job. Come on!</p>

<p>I like STEM, because it is versatile. If your science career is not rosy, you can always switch to business (MBA) or law (J.D.). You can work with patents (USPTO hires examiners with MS and Ph.D.) You can go into law enforcement (crime scene analysis for biologists, cyber-crime for programmers). If math is good (but not good enough to become Prof of math) you can work for hedge fund, Wall Street, or financial sector. </p>

<p>Yes, I am one of the mothers that strongly suggests D. to get a degree in STEM. At a minimum, she would find a nice boyfriend. :)</p>

<p>Because nonSTEM guys aren’t “nice”? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>glido , H1B engineers are great for the field.</p>

<p>USA needs a critical mass of STEM experts to make strong companies. Without critical mass, there won’t be strong companies, new startups, new Googles and Apples. There would be less companies, less employment for everyone!</p>

<p>No, not every kid with STEM degree would get nice employment. Ever. STEM is a very competitive field, it is not an assembly line at Ford manufacturing. STEM would always have winners and losers, billionaires and unemployed. For every Google, you would have 100 bankrupt startups and unemployed programmers.</p>

<p>romanigypsyeyes,</p>

<p>Guys at Humanities are pretty spoiled by the abundance of pretty girls looking to start relationship. </p>

<p>Gender ratio at STEM - favors girls, looking to find a nice boyfriend. :)</p>