The thing I don't like about UMich...

<p>is that the classes are too big, and the professors are more focused on research than undergraduate teaching.</p>

<p>That’s weird. A quick little glance of your posts shows me that you applied to Michigan this year? We don’t like ■■■■■■.</p>

<p>I’ll humor you…what are your thoughts on UMich’s classes? What is the basis for your assessment?</p>

<p>lol. I am not a ■■■■■. I have to choose among UMich, UVa, Brandeis, and URochester. After researching these schools, I am leaning towards UMich because all of its majors are highly ranked, but the ONLY thing I am concerned about is the large class sizes-which is criticized by an online article.
Just wondering the accuracy of this article.
Actually, it’s not just UMich, large public universities all have this inevitable problem.<br>
I just want to ask U of M students/alumni on their reaction towards this problem. Does it affect you academicly? Do you guys mind having large classes?</p>

<p>Eh, depends on the department. Polisci has very good profs and GSIs that very much care about the students. I have had good experiences with English, Philosophy, History, Geosci, Environ, and Business professors as well. Econ and Math (my majors) professors have not been as good, as far as devotion to students, as professors in other subjects I’ve taken.</p>

<p>That’s what I’m worried about, too. I got accepted to Mich, along with UVa, Carleton and Emory. UMich econ is definitely stronger than the others, but…it’s just TOO BIG!</p>

<p>Yea UM Econ is a behemoth, but it has brilliant (for the most part) professors. It’s a good program, you will learn a great deal, but you’re going to have to put in a good amount of self-study.</p>

<p>Copied from my post on another thread, though I can speak much for econ: </p>

<p>The class size statistic is misleading for those studying non-econ social sciences and humanities for students of high caliber. If you actively utilize the honors program, enter with advance standing, and proactively contact professors (as many high caliber students will) you likely won’t see an appreciable difference in class sizes between any major research university. (What I mean is, whether a lecture is 100 people or 200 people, if you don’t get much out of a big lecture format you aren’t going to go). At all research universities, including Stanford and Yale, first year class sizes for intro classes are large, impersonal, and a mixed bag. </p>

<p>From my experiences here, I’ve had as a freshman 3 giant lectures (two econ courses and a Great books course), one lecture with under 30 students on one of the top professors in his field, and 5 seminar-style courses with less than 20 students on a professor. Next year as a first semester sophomore (junior standing) all but one of my classes will be 25 students or less on a professor and my other one a 400-level lecture with under 75 people. </p>

<p>The only place where size bears out is in how willing the school is to spend on students. However, if you demonstrate that you know what you’re doing they’ll let you do most things you want.</p>

<p>OK, I was at UM ages ago (really). But here’s what I want to share with you. Some of the profs then–and it is true today-- are brilliant, excellent communicators, and REALLY good in the large lecture setting. It is actually a great thing that so many students can benefit from those professors. And in every case, you will have small discussion sessions with grad students who know the material inside and out.</p>

<p>So large lectures are not necessarily a negative.</p>

<p>Econ classes at Michigan will tend to be large. Same goes for Econ classes at any university that have 1,000 or so Econ majors at any point in time. Michigan has 26,000 undergrads, of which roughly 6% major in Economics. That means there are 1,600 Econ majors walking around campus at any point in time. UVa isn’t any better. They have 14,000 undergrads, of which 12% major in Economics. That means there are 1,600 Econ majors walking around UVa at any point in time. Even at Harvard, you have close to 7,000 undergrads, of which roughly 16% major in Economics. That means there are over 1,000 Econ majors on campus at any point in time.</p>

<p>Economics, like Biology, History, Political Science and Psychology, will also attract students in large numbers and are going to have large classes virtually everywhere. I have friends who attended other elite Econ programs such as Northwestern and Stanford, and they also hardly ever had Econ classes with fewer than 30 tudents. Most Econ classes they took had between 40-80 students.</p>

<p>Alexandre, you consider Michigan’s undergraduate Econ program to be “elite”? What is your criteria for “elite”? Concentrators here are not required to take any math beyond Calc I, nor are we required to take any high-level statistics, let alone econometrics. Heck, you can get by with only taking three classes that require 401 (or 402) as a prerequisite, many of which are not terribly challenging.</p>

<p>giants, Harvard, Northwestern, Penn, Princeton and Stanford also only required Calculus I. Very few Economics programs require undergrads to take Math beyond Calculus I.</p>

<p>Harvard only requires Math 1A (Calculus I)
<a href=“http://www.economics.harvard.edu/files/Revised_Requirements.pdf[/url]”>http://www.economics.harvard.edu/files/Revised_Requirements.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Princeton only requires Math 103 (Calculus I)
[Requirements[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Stanford only requires Math 51 (Calculus I)
[url=<a href=“http://economics.stanford.edu/undergraduate/economics-major-requirements]Economics”>http://economics.stanford.edu/undergraduate/economics-major-requirements]Economics</a> Major Requirements | E c o n o m i c s](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/economics/undergraduate/requirements/]Requirements[/url”>http://www.princeton.edu/economics/undergraduate/requirements/)</p>

<p>Only Chicago and MIT require all Economics majors to take Mathematics beyond Calculus II.</p>

<p>I have observed that at most universities, there are two Economics tracks:</p>

<p>1) The majority of students who just want to get a degree in Economics and from there, either go to Law School or get a job in industry.</p>

<p>2) A minority of students who actually want to challenge themselves and take more advanced and quantitative Econ classes or who intend on pursuing graduate studies in Economics will take Calc II and III as well as Linear Algebra and Advanced Statistics.</p>

<p>My criteria for determining Elite Economics departments is simple:</p>

<p>1) A faculty that is among the very best
2) The course selection to allow undergrads to learn as much as they want
3) The reputation as an elite program among peer institutions (qualified Econ majors end up matriculating into top Law Schools and graduate Econ programs)
4) Availlability of graduate level courses open to undergrads.</p>

<p>Hm, ok. I suppose that’s pretty valid. I knew Chicago, MIT, (and I thought Penn as well?) required heavier math. That’s my categorization of elite-level (those that require math and thus prepare their kids to continue at the graduate level). No matter how few schools (2-3+) qualify.</p>

<p>Giants, I think that some schools offer only BS degrees in Economics whereas others, like Harvard, Michigan, Princeton and Stanford offer both BA and BS options in Econonmics. Either way, I think you will find it difficult to find more than a handful of Economics departments that are better than Michigan’s.</p>

<p>well if you don’t like large classes why don’t you look into smaller colleges that offer the same kinds of majors you want? If you want to go to a big public school like U of M or UIUC, your going to have huge 200 student lecture hall classes. Thats a given, you can’t do anything about it. But its only in your first year and maybe sophomore year. After that the classes start getting smaller as you start doing things specific to your own major.</p>