@Booajo if you are just looking for a program where your son can run (rather than for admissions support), there are many LAC programs where the bar for entry is quite low. Even in the NESCAC there are teams willing to carry and compete boys who barely broke 19 in HS. Sure, those coaches would love to recruit scoring athletes. But they also welcome others. You might want to look for programs where this is the case, as it says something about the way a coach approaches things (williams is an example of an inclusive but strong program). Keep in mind also that boys will improve a ton and coaches know this. Talk to them and they’ll be able to tell you what type of 5k HS xc time would be a fit (if they know your region, they’ll know the state, invite, and nxr courses pretty well). Track times are easier though, as others have mentioned.
Thanks @politeperson
We aren’t looking for admission boost, just welcoming environment. I hope he’ll keep improving too!
@politeperson, not certain how recent your experience is, but many NESCAC schools are implementing cut times for both xc and track - gone are the days when anyone who wanted to show up and train hard could find a spot. As a result, a sub-18 realty needs to be the goal to get most coach’s interest.
ive been reading this thread and really dont mean to hijack, but im very curious as to what XC times are good for D2 or even low D1s. where do you see these times or find them? ive looked on athletic dot net and cant get into the college times. any other ideas?
@bgbg4us, most D1 schools post recruiting standards on their team page, and some D2 do the same. There are some recruiting sites that publish bands, but they aren’t very accurate.
The best way to get a sense as to times needed is to look at last season’s performances on www.tfrrs.org - you’ll be able to search by conference, by school and even click on an athlete and see all of their college times.
@bgbg4us, it is encouraged to ask new track/XC questions on this thread, so no worries.
Previously I suggested looking to see if the school you are interested in has a web page labelled “recruiting standards.” It will be on the team webpage under “recruits.” Listed should be the times/marks for various distances or field events. There should be columns for “men,” “women,” “recruits,” and “walk-ons.” This will give you an idea of what it would take to be considered. If a school does not publish its recruiting standards, then look to see what times the team ran during the track season, preferably at the conference meet. Also, some schools publish news stories about their recruits. From these you may be able see what marks were made by the prior year’s recruits. There will be large variation between schools. Good luck!
@Chembiodad Yes, sub 18 is a good goal. My point was simply that even runners slower than that are competing at some programs, including some in the nescac. Definitely worth talking to the coach.
@bgbg4us
Try this link: DII 2016 men’s XC times. You can switch to DI or DIII
You’ll see that the top DII men’s 5K time was 15:06 to 15:28 for 10th
https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Division/List.aspx?DivID=36595
My guy is sub17, hence the thought he might be an asset already.
Slightly different question–do the letters from coaches (snail mail) mean much?
My son has looked at DI,II & III schools. He is a pretty decent runner, but an average student. Does anyone know if a private DIII school may find other ways to offer some type of scholarship to recruit an athlete? The coach he liked the best so far was at a private DIII school. However, that may be out of our range$. He knows that the overnight visit will also tell him more. This whole process is a little daunting to say the least:)
@Booajo, I would say that form letters inviting an athlete to fill out the online questionnaire, or providing a written questionnaire in an envelope don’t mean a whole lot (could be a mass mailing), though you still have to fill them out and return them if you are interested. However, if there is a handwritten note attached then it could indicate that the coach is following your kid more closely. If your kid is interested in a school, he should fill out the online questionnaire and follow up with an email (with transcript or resume attached)…and do this whether or not he has received a letter from the coach.
so, ive just spent 2+ hours looking at all of this! super interesting. I randomly took names from D1,2 & 3 rosters from all level of schools and looked at the kids times through HS with the 5K runs.
It was encouraging to see how many of these kids progressed during HS. I guess this one of those “DUH” statements, but it seems the higher ranking of the school, the better athletes are there, and several top D3 schools had way better times than lower D1 schools.
have a sophomore. some of his freshmen times were similar to some of div 1 kids times as freshmen. But they all upped their game/run through HS - so this year will tell.
question: why are there so many kids on some D3 teams compared to D1?
That’s what we’re saying, some schools allow anyone to be part of the team so they have big teams. Others restrict the size of the team to those who can compete, plus a few alternates. On those big D3 teams, it’s unlikely that the entire team is traveling to meets.
Being D1 doesn’t mean there is an endless budget to accept all walk ons. Many D1 schools are dropping teams just because they can’t afford to have a coach or a travel budget. They can’t just have 10 walk ons who aren’t going to compete. If there is enough interest, there is often a running club.
@bgbg4us, top D3 xc/track teams compete very well against mid-tier D1 and all tiers of D2. NESCAC in particular does very well given the schools combine a highly selective academic environment with strong athletics as so that becomes the selection focus - some NESCAC sports such as lacrosse, swimming and VB, amongst others, will crush many D1 and most D2 teams.
Yes, progressing through HS is very important to be able to show. Girls in particular traditionally peak in the 9th or 10th grade, so breaking through that growth phase and then getting faster is huge.
Agree with @twoinanddone, as just like a ranked HS team will have Varsity, JV-A and then everyone else, a strong D3 team will bring 7-12 to travel and championship meets and the rest will be able to compete at 1-3 home meets.
@bgbg4us asked “question: why are there so many kids on some D3 teams compared to D1?”
Since there are no scholarships in D3, many D3 schools are able to keep large teams in some sports, though not all the kids will travel to away competitions. Many schools do this in part to fill seats in the classroom (with largely full pay students) and probably to increase yield through ED, the application process many athletes are encouraged to use.
On the flip side, I have noticed 35 or more athletes on the team sideline at Northwestern (D1) women’s home soccer games. I know many won’t get any playing time in matches and won’t travel to away meets. So why are so many allowed on the sideline? I imagine part of it is the coach’s philosophy, though I also suspect that the school is glad to have so many engaged student athletes, many of whom will be full pay. I think there will be firmer cuts at D1 state schools where budgets may be tighter and filling classroom seats is not as much of a concern.
These are some questions to ask - size of team, does entire team travel, how are slots filled for meets. So much depends on how far they are traveling and how, by auto, bus, air.
My daughter’s team is small so they all travel to away games, even those who are injured. But they travel by bus so there is no added cost except for food. Men’s team also takes everyone, but again the bus holds 55, they have 40 or so players plus the coaches and trainers so they all fit on one bus. I know of a high ranked D1 team where everyone didn’t travel to away games because they flew, but they did all get to go to the national championship because the NCAA pays for travel, lodging and meals for the playoffs and championships, so why not take everyone?
Intrigued that a top D3 school got back to my S with some target times–he has specific goals to shoot for now. All seem difficult but attainable (except I have my doubts about him reaching the 800 m time–that is too short for him!)
@Booajo, most of the top-D3 programs are now sending prospects recruiting standards - they are no longer able to carry anyone that shows up, so they need to set expectations early on. For those schools that are providing standards, given your DS is a Rising Senior it will be unlikely that any support will be given during ED unless he has already achieved the marks.
Not applying ED, no way no how. He needs to get in on his academic record anyway (which is stellar luckily.)
Just happy to have some goals to aim at. Maybe it was just pro forma, but he’ll take what he can get.
@Booajo, why against the ED route? Don’t underestimate the value of a coach’s nudge at highly selective D3’s as all unhooked applicants have stellar academic records - figure a 1500 SAT / 34 ACT is the baseline for ORM’s.
With that in mind, if your DS can get coach’s support that could enable him to have several highly selective choices in the RD round.
My XC/Track DD had that profile and along with the support of some coaches ended up with great RD acceptances to pick from - could it have happened without XC/track, maybe, but why not showcase everything.you can bring to the admissions committee. And yes, she committed to a great NESCAC school/team at accepted students day and all is well.