The traditional, deciding which college to go to thread.

Parents Forum
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<p>As a CC member for some time now, I'm almost reluctant to post this thread, as I know how much of a faux pas posting inane College A v College B threads can be.</p>

<p>That said however, I've grown, over my year and a bit on CC to really appreciate the Parents' Forum for the brilliant and sane people on it, so I thought I'd post this anyway, as I've really reached an impasse at the moment.</p>

<p>I've tried all the measures recommended over the past few years. I've given numerical values to the colleges I've been accepted to based on my feelings for them, I've imagined when I'd feel the most disappointed if a college acceptance was suddenly snatched away, but I'm still rather clueless. As an International student, visiting the colleges I've been accepted to/going to Accepted Student Weekends is not an option, so I'm restricted to the individual college websites+CC for forming opinions on the colleges.</p>

<p>The situation: The colleges I'm seriously considering are University of Pennsylvania, Duke, Rice and Berkeley (Regents)</p>

<p>At this point, (If anyone's still reading this thread :)), I'd just like to say a little bit about me/us (My identical twin and I have been accepted to the same colleges, and are both in exactly the same situation).</p>

<p>We're both prospective Engineers, but both of us are also looking into the prospect of a double major in something completely different. (Monty Python anecdotes aside :)) (Physics in my case, IR/Economics in my brother's)</p>

<p>We're both extremely, well, not your typical college students. We're a little young for college. (16 at the moment), we're the type who consider curling up with a book or just spending some time with friends as a good time. We probably won't join a fraternity, we've no interest in how good the 'party scene' is at our colleges. We've been debaters for most of our lives, and that's going to be our primary EC in College.</p>

<p>Our concerns for each of the colleges are as follows:</p>

<p>Berkeley: The Size, plus the fact that we're not too sure how we'll fit in with its environment. (We've read some horror stories on the Berkeley forum). Also we're a little bit put off by the idea that we might not get the classes we want/not be able to do research. We've got the Regents' Scholarship though, which we understand is a big deal if you're International, so we'd like some input as to how useful that really is. However, there's no getting away from the fact that Berkeley is Engineering, so we're again stuck.</p>

<p>Penn: A great school, the opportunity of doing a dual degree with Wharton's really a big boost, but we're not too sure of how, well competitive the Engineering program is, especially as we'll be turning down Berkeley to go to it. We've learnt by now not to trust USNWR that much, but is there really a reason why Penn's engineering is apparently ranked so low? (Gets out flak vest to ward off Rankings haters :))</p>

<p>Duke: Again, a great school, we love the Undergrad focus and the campus. But we're not too sure about the campus life over there. Is the school heavily Greek-Oriented? We know that the stereotypical image of Duke isn't necessarily true, but again, it is a concern.</p>

<p>Rice: Again, we love the Residential College system and the ease of double majoring, but again, we're not too sure about its Engineering program. </p>

<p>Basically, that's the situation. We're actually a bit more concerned with what we're turning down rather than what we're accepting, because each of these colleges are so different and great that we know we'd be essentially happy at any of them...</p>

<p>Thanks to anyone who's managed to read this, and apologies for the long post. :D</p>

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<p>May I ask, are you ex-pats in Dubai or Arabic-speaking UAE citizens?</p>

<p>What area of engineering do you hope to study? For what career? In what country?</p>

<p>Well done to you both, btw. You've got a high class problem.</p>

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<p>We're Indian Citizens, lived in the Arabian/Persian Gulf area all our lives. (Oman and then the UAE)... We don't speak Arabic, which is not that surprising considering that English is very much the lingua franca in these parts. (We tend to dream in Shakespeare actually, so we don't anticipate any problems with 21st Century English, if that's what your question was about :))</p>

<p>We're open as to where we're going to be working. As regards the career, we're looking into the possibility of an interlude in Consulting/IBanking or summat before Grad School, but we don't want to rule out the possibility of future study/work in Engineering either. (As you can see, we're moderately indecisive :))</p>

<p>What type of Engineering? Well, I'm tending towards either Materials or Biomedical at the moment. (We've been also accepted to JHU for that, but we're not too sure we want to go there). K_twin (Kaushik, my twin) is more undecided, really, looking to do something that's more inter-disciplinary.</p>

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<p>Not able to visit the schools mentioned! Wow, this is really quite a choice, and you are only 16. </p>

<p>Tell us have you traveled much in the US ?
Do you know the differences between urban Phila and liberal Calif scenes? </p>

<p>We live one hour from Phila-watch Phila news and there is a serious homocide issue going on in the city this year. There were some issues on/ near the Penn campus last year, and the school responded quickly.</p>

<p>Reading the school newspapers gives some insight into the "climate"-FYI.</p>

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<p>Ah, I've never been to the US. (I'm compiling quite a list of 'what not to do when deciding which college to go to" aren't I? :))</p>

<p>I'm not sure I'll mind either climate really. (I'm moderately liberal myself, so Berkeley won't be that much of a shock. (Though it would be a shock, I'm sure) :))</p>

<p>We're actually pretty ok with the environs of all these schools, we're confident that we will meet people we can relate to wherever we go.</p>

<p>The problem we're facing is that essentially we can't come up with a concrete reason as to why we should turn any of these colleges down for another. (Though as the College Gods have decreed that one can only attend one college for undergrad, it stands to reason that we'll have to :D)</p>

<p>Thanks for the college newspapers idea though. We'll do that.</p>

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<p>Given that you are young and from a different country, as a parent, I would assume that Rice will give you the most protected and personal environment. It doesn't sound like you would enjoy the social environment at Duke and Berkely and Penn would be a larger more impersonal experience.</p>

<p>Rice has an excellent reputation for Engineering. Perhaps you could contact some professors in your prospective majors to ask them why you should choose Rice??</p>

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<p>I agree with pyewackets' comments. My son is a senior now and interested in majoring in Engineering, and I've had the opportunity to visit each of the schools you are considering. He didn't apply to Duke or Berkeley for exactly the same reasons that you voice as concerns. He's a legacy to Duke, but in the end didn't even apply because he's not into the fraternity scene or basketball -- both of which are very big at Duke. Berkeley is a large community and while it's a fabulous deal for Californians and a great engineering program, it's expensive for out of staters, and we've heard horror stories about class sizes. My son loved the Penn campus but in the end he cut it off his list because he didn't feel that the engineering department was very strong. The vibe from the school was competitive, not openly friendly and pre-professional. I think there's a strong fraternity scene there too.</p>

<p>We live 10 minutes away from Rice and my son at first was not even interested in applying there because he wanted to be far away. But the more campuses we visited, the more he realized what great qualities Rice has. The engineering is very strong at Rice and the residential college system provides you with an instant family. The classes are small, the professors care, and the campus is beautiful -- surrounded on one side by the largest medical center in the world, another side by museums and a public park, on another side by beautiful homes and on the fourth side by a 12-block area called Rice Village consisting of shops and restaurants and coffee shops. There's a light rail that runs along the side of campus that goes downtown. </p>

<p>I was driving by the Rice campus one Sunday morning last August and I got behind a car with Wyoming license plates that was filled to the brim. I realized it must be the first day of orientation for freshmen. As I drove by campus I saw a group of Rice students wearing colored tee shirts with signs that said "Jones College" looking expectantly at each car that was driving by. When the Wyoming car put on its blinker to turn in to the driveway where the students were waiting, they all started jumping up and down and ran over to the car. What a wonderful way to arrive at a new school from far away!</p>

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<p>I've received that sort of a vibe from Rice as well... :)</p>

<p>Actually it's more of a Rice v Penn situation for me at the moment. (Can't speak for my twin, we've both decided to decide individually).</p>

<p>It's just that being an International at Berkeley is so very rare, as is getting a Regents as an International, that we're not really sure if we should turn it down...</p>

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<p>If finances were not part of the mix, I'd second Pyewacket's suggestion of Rice myself.</p>

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<p>Finances wise, we can't really say, as we haven't received any of our admissions packets yet...</p>

<p>Yes we know we're worrying about this too much, but well, we're CCers! We worry. :D</p>

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<p>Congrats to you and your brother on being accepted by excellent schools. Your post shows that you are very mature and I am sure you will succeed at any of the schools. I have no suggestions but please do me a favor. Give your mom and dad a huge hug from me. They are better parents than I. I cannot imagine my 16 year old half a world away for months at a time. It would just crush me.</p>

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<p>Shrivats: Go with the money and Berkeley. Save the money for grad school. I have been following your threads and both you brothers are remarkable twins.</p>

<p>If money is not an object and you want to do bio-medical - Rice and Duke are excellent. Rice is going through a big expansion in bio medical and Duke is one of the best. If you want materials engineering-Rice, Duke, JHU or even PEnn should not be in picture.</p>

<p>and if you like business there is always Hass at UCB - It may not be Wharton.</p>

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<p>Thanks a lot marite, simba, cmbmom, pyewacket, cheers, southjerseychessmom and blackeyedsusan. (I'm actually quite amazed that anybody read through my mammoth of a post, so thanks to all of you!)</p>

<p>@simba: Actually that's something we've been wondering about. Berkeley's about the same cost as the other schools for us. (What with extra fees for Internationals and all...) Also we're not sure about whether the Regents Scholar is a financial award at all. (The Site says that it's $1000 as an honorarium, and full need if one has need. It then contradicts itself in rapid succession, saying both that Internationals can apply for such aid and that a Social Security Number is required for such an application. :))</p>

<p>We're going to be calling the Berkeley office in a few hours, so we should have an answer soon either way...</p>

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<p>Shrivats, I cannot offer any useful information about these colleges, but did want to add my congratulations to you and your twin brother. At only 16, you evidence far more maturity - not to mention excellent clarity in your writing - than many college educated, successful adults. </p>

<p>You will do fine wherever you decide to attend college, however, the single worry might be that you might tend to "outgrow" a smaller, more personal environment such as Rice. Having said that, I have never been to Rice and know absolutely nothing about it. I do sense though that you might have more room to stretch and grow in a larger, more urban, dynamic setting. </p>

<p>I do know something about Dubai, and for some reason my tummy wants to tell you that Berkeley is going to be the best "personal" fit, followed by Penn. Or maybe the reverse of that....</p>

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<p>OK so let us set aside $. Except for Bio medical engineering (Rice, Duke), no schools on your list are as good as Berkeley. Even for Bio Berkeley is pretty good.</p>

<p>However there is a trade off. Except Rice and Duke all schools are congested (either they are in the middle of a big city or large state school). Weather: You can't beat bay area. Duke is nice and Houston in summer is just like Kolkata (I live here).</p>

<p>Now let me ask you this when you applied to Berkley which engineering program did you apply for? My son was accepted at Berkeley, but he did not go there. During the application phase he was flip-flopping between Chemical Engineering and Electrical engineering. At UCB he applied as a Ch. E. In April he changed his mind to EE, but at UCB that was not possible. He would have to re-apply in the second year to EE. At state schools, you don't have that much flexibility in changing majors.</p>

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<p>We've applied to Berkeley as Engineering (Undecided)... </p>

<p>Again, I had much the same doubts about Berkeley as many of you have expressed, but I'm not sure how the Regents Scholarship affects that. I've no information about the Scholarship except the marketing spiel on the Berkeley website, so I'm actually a bit confused as to how much difference it makes in practice. (As you can imagine we're going to be making one long phone call to Berkeley today :))</p>

<p>Flexibility is a big part of what we're looking for, which is another mark against Berkeley. We both want to explore possibilities with a second major. (We've been in a very ramified high school curriculum, so we haven't really explored many subjects outside of the sciences to see how we like them)</p>

<p>The situation basically is this. We've got many, many reasons not to go to Berkeley, but the over-riding factor that always seems to hang over our decision is the fact that Berkeley is so very good for Engineering. It's hard to turn down something that's ranked at the very top in what you want to study, and that's basically our problem.</p>

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<p>(Just a side note that today is Saturday and you may not be getting an answer at the financial aid offices until Monday...)</p>

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<p>Being the very top doesn't matter so much! All the top-ranked programs are good and will provide you opportunities galore. I'm a Rice parent and my second kid will probably attend Rice next year. He could attend UT-Austin engineering honors program with merit money (and according to rankings it is higher ranked than Rice) , but is 99% sure he will turn it down. Why? Because there is almost no flexibility in the coursework, and woe be to a student who changes his major. The Rice curriculum has a lot more flexibility and options to try out different things and still graduate in 4 years. Rice also has a large number of kids who double major.
[quote]
You will do fine wherever you decide to attend college, however, the single worry might be that you might tend to "outgrow" a smaller, more personal environment such as Rice. Having said that, I have never been to Rice and know absolutely nothing about it. I do sense though that you might have more room to stretch and grow in a larger, more urban, dynamic setting.

[/quote]
I can't IMAGINE anyone outgrowing Rice. It is in the center of a huge bustling city, with research and medical facilities, museums, parks, etc all right there; but a lovely campus etc. The student population including grads is about 5000, and there of tons of work and internship, travel and work abroad programs. It's not like it's a campus of 1800 students in the hills of vermont.
[quote]
Given that you are young and from a different country, as a parent, I would assume that Rice will give you the most protected and personal environment. It doesn't sound like you would enjoy the social environment at Duke and Berkely and Penn would be a larger more impersonal experience.

[/quote]
I agree with this... My daughter's college masters are wonderful, and took interest in all the kids in their college. My D doesnt' have a car at school, but the O-week advisors took the kids out to Target, bank, etc to help them get set up. If you get sick, or need assistance, there are friendly folks at Rice that can help you, and that's more important than you think. (Speaking from a parent whose kid had a bad case of mono!)
Just a note about reading the student newspaper -realize that editorials are where kids tend to overstate to make a point, and only the kids who feel strongly about issues tend to write. I don't think the Rice newspaper gives a very good sense of Rice. JM 2 cents. :)</p>

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<p>My D doesnt' have a car at school, but the O-week advisors took the kids out to Target, bank, etc to help them get set up.</p>

<p>Regarding Penn-my cousin's D is a sophomore-so I can safely say you would not find this kind of concern at Penn. It isn't warm and fuzzy- you a 16- you may be away from your twin for the first time, and adjusting to life on ANY American Campus-</p>

<p>Whew-- anxiousmom is right about the editorials in school newspapers- but, front page headline stories in the archive section may give you that additional vibe about these campuses so far away from you !</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the advice everybody. It's much appreciated. We've actually decided to put the decision off for a few more days, until we actually get the acceptance packages from the various schools and have time to analyze our options. (We're still in the midst of acceptance fever right now, a little time may help us. :))</p>