In favor of race blind admissions!!!
The two links do not include the same race/ethnicity categories. In particular, the school’s table puts Native American and Native Hawaiian together, and does not list multiracial separately (calculations assume that only non-multiracial students are included in each of the specific race/ethnicity categories, an assumption that may not necessarily be correct). White+other (from the Crimson article) and multiracial+white+other (from the school’s table) are based on the total minus all listed races/ethnicities. Additionally, the applicant race/ethnicity percentages in the Crimson article are for the class of 2019, while the school’s table is for the class of 2018, though the Crimson article says that the race/ethnicity percentages are similar between the years. The table below uses the Crimson article percentages with the school’s numbers.
Race/ethnicity Applicants Admits Admit percentage
Asian 7236 410 5.7%
Black 3429 246 7.2%
Latino 4286 266 6.2%
Native American 549
Native Hawaiian 137
NA + NH 41 6.0%
Multiracial 4218
White + Other 14438
MR + W + O 1085 5.8%
Of course, strength of applicants (whether in academic stats, subjectively evaluated application criteria, “tags”/“hooks”, and/or “institutional needs/wants”) in each race/ethnicity category is not included in the information given.
Carry on with the arguments…
@GreenEggsHam But considering race in admissions is also about having a diverse class of students of different backgrounds. The elite colleges value having a good amount of people from all races in their student body. Why is that such a big deal? They should be able to decide what they want their class to be like, and that’s what they’re doing.
I agree with you that URMs may not necessarily have a socioeconomic disadvantage, because I’m a URM in high school and I live in a middle class neighborhood just like all my white and asian peers, but that’s not the only reason why race should be a factor. As a URM I personally would prefer a more balanced campus with people of all races, not dominated by any one race, and I’m sure some other URMs would agree with me. Test scores and GPA aren’t everything anyways. They don’t tell the whole picture.
A lot of the definition of “well-rounded” and “holistic” evaluation has to do with the background of the admission committees. These committees tend to be predominantly white with a few URM recruiters. And when considering the proportion of Asians that apply, there are extremely few Asian admission officers on the committees. This leads to a lot of unintentional discrimination due to cultural biases as to what makes a good student. This is to be expected with any non-objective process.
It’s not like being Asian is easier than being any other minority. Most Asians are second or third generation immigrants and we do not have any advantages rather most people around us know nothing about admissions. People stereotype Asians too, Asians are discriminated against as much as any other minority so, should there be a policy protecting Asians no, we don’t need an advantage in the admissions race all we want is equal ground and we will blow everyone out of the water like we are doing in many race blind universities.
@dsi411 I agree with you fully in that colleges “should be able to decide what they want their class to be like.” The colleges themselves own that right and is there for them to use at their discretion. However, there have been many things done in history that people or groups have done that are unfair, even though they held the right to do those things.
I’m not saying a diverse campus is bad or anything, and I understand that a URM would want to have a significant amount of peers from the same culture. But keep in mind that race is a human created thing. Asians aren’t a different species from Native Americans, and Hispanics aren’t a different species from Whites. If we continue to discriminate by race, when will we ever learn to look at each individual for their own accomplishments.
@Bored1997 Quick question, since you stated you are Asian, what is your opinion as to why the schools being sued by Asian groups including South Asians are the ones with the highest Asian populations and also where on average 60% of admitted students receive financial aid on average that is over 80% of the cost of attendance. It would seem to me that other elite schools should be the ones getting sued as well as the top liberal arts colleges. Any thoughts?
Anyone else have an opinion?
"This leads to a lot of unintentional discrimination due to cultural biases as to what makes a good student.’…it isn’t so much about what makes a good student because probably 70% of applicants to the elite colleges would be good students while there. Many times the deciding factors are those I outlined in post #62. Just because a certain student may get higher grades than another does not make then the most attractive candidate.
I would love to know what direction cc “admission’s expert” @dave_berry thought this thread would go? Did he really feel the cc racists needed yet another outlet? This thread should be closed-nothing new is being brought to the discussion. Isn’t there an ongoing “free to hate” thread already? So amusing that the word “Tr-ll” was deemed so offensive it was banned but the continual racism, hate, and stereotyping toward an entrie group of young people is not only tolerated but actually encouraged with the continual posting of this same topic over and over.
@BatesParents2019 As I posted earlier the class of any college should reflect or at least resemble the applicant pool for that university therefore the Asian groups are targeting schools that go out of their way to restrict Asian population to 20-25% even when the applicant pool is over 35% asian. Also most lac’s are very small and that makes the process a lot more subjective than larger universities and yield’s a smaller group to get conclusive evidence for discrimination.
Since we may be coming to the end of this thread, let me say this. Many of you who claim discrimination, don’t really know. You think it exists, I’ll grant you that. But you haven’t seen applications, just from a few local friends, if that. You often have a hard time understanding the magnitude of the competition for a place like Harvard, where so many applicants are top performers with a little this and that, often very much the same. And often applying “in bulk” from just a few areas. And for the same majors. Kids struggle on chance-me threads to try to understand just what holistic IS looking for. I get that.
But I can say, from my own experience, that Asian Americans are a great group, in general. Highly qualified, hard workers, often with more than just hs clubs. Often witty, balanced, grounded, etc.
Give yourselves a break. But get to know what these elites are about, what distinguishes one from another (no, not whether S tops H, this year in USNews.) Learn about the programs, how you might engage outside class, what that school offers you …and what YOU offer the whole, there. Have fun with it. And then present a winning application. Don’t go on assumptions, don’t fly blind.
I don’t see any logic in the class reflecting the profile of the applicant pool. I also see no evidence of discrimination. I see a process of selection rooted in both fairness, practicality and broad intellectualism. The backdrop of this process also includes a multitude of other choices.
I guess by your statement you feel other universities and liberal arts colleges actively practice discrimination but it cannot be proven. Or do the low levels of Asian populations at other top schools reflect something else?
What if the Ivy League schools went test optional. How would that alter your view of the process?
@batesparents2019 I think that low levels of population in other schools also reflects that most Asians are pigeonholed into specific majors. I am one of the cynicals in that view because I have no particular interests and no passion just applied to whatever suited my resume and what I was showing to the college.
Half of this thread is trying to say that Asian people are all about numbers and our “intellectual vitality” is somehow what keeps us out of elites. That is like saying Asian people just don’t have a personality which is not correct.
It’s funny, because the mere concept of “URM” is backwards in itself. African-American and Hispanic students are well aware of their advantage and thus don’t try as hard as Asian students do to get into these elite schools. So in fact, it is making them work less rather than more. If every ethnicity had an equal playing field, these “URM” students would work just as hard as Asian students and compete fairly for a spot at elites. College is for merit, not for diversity. I want a roommate who got in because he is intellectual and hardworking, not because he can add to the “diversity” of the school. Then in essence, he is a piece of furniture in the school, there just to add more culture.
Mango, says who? You know someone you feel didn’t work hard enough? And that’s good enough to convince you about all URMs? You’re dismissing a whole category of kids based on what?
And you could get a top stats roommate who bores you to death or any of the other complaints CC gets from students. Haha.
@JuicyMango, so don’t apply to schools like Harvard. Why would you even consider a school whose priorities are so different from your own?
And how exactly do you know how hard any applicant has worked, aside from yourself? If you don’t want to be stereotyped, don’t stereotype others.
@lookingforward: Haha, ok fine that’s true. You never know when it comes to roommates. 
@LucieTheLakie: Sorry, I didn’t mean to stereotype a whole group of people. I am just considering the concept in my own point of view. If I were given a special opportunity just because of the accident of birth, I would definitely not try as hard as a kid with no opportunities and benefits because he/she made the grave mistake of being born an Asian/White. Needless to say, some of the most brilliant students I’ve met have been URM’s, and they’ve still worked hard because they have a passion for learning. But I think all of us here can agree that that miracle does not apply to every URM student. I can not tell you how many times I’ve heard people say “1870 SAT, 3.2 GPA (URM) Chance me for Harvard”. I know that if I were Asian and had those same stats, I wouldn’t be so bold as to apply to a top school like Harvard where those scores are well-below average. And if you ask many URM’s, they are frustrated with the whole process because unfortunately many people see their acceptances as merely a product of the “diversity scam”. Thus, many Republicans believe Obama got into Harvard and Columbia solely on the grounds of his race. I hate when people assume this, so in fact, I am helping URM’s by making sure everyone gets an equal opportunity to attend elite schools without getting criticized for getting in because of privilege you never earned but rather because of merit and pure hard-work.
@JuicyMango wrote: “If I were given a special opportunity just because of the accident of birth, I would definitely not try as hard as a kid with no opportunities and benefits because he/she made the grave mistake of being born an Asian/White.”
In that case, I doubt you are the type of person who top colleges are looking for. They want people who are going to make the most with the resources available to them. Someone who has had limited opportunities because of race and/or socioeconomic background but does the most with what they have is someone who would most likely try just as hard, regardless of their circumstances. No system is perfect, and there are undoubtedly people who get in from both backgrounds who don’t meet that ideal, but that seems to be what they are looking for. Having the resources available at a top school is a privilege, and most colleges don’t want to waste a valued admission spot on someone who is going to waste that opportunity.
@JuicyMango "I am helping URM’s by making sure everyone gets an equal opportunity to attend elite schools without getting criticized for getting in because of privilege you never earned but rather because of merit and pure hard-work. "
You have a very peculiar definition of “helping,” IMHO.
This thread outlived its usefulness long ago.
@renaissancedad: I completely understand what you mean, and I apologize for coming off as brash. It just angers me when I see a kid with lower stats and weaker extracurriculars get into a school because he/she was born a certain race, which to me is very unfair.