<p>"When demand increases, you can increase the price (wages) or the supply (e.g. add foreign workers or train more American workers). So the question is: would it be more beneficial for the American government to admit a lot of foreign workers (relative to the current level), create more education and training possibilities for its own citizens or just let the market regulate itself via prices?"</p>
<p>First the government will admit only those with a job offer.Second:the government is too slow to follow the steps of the market.When the government decides to "create more education and training posssibilites" to supply this sector,it's normally too late.The best way in my opinion is to let the market regulate itself.</p>
<p>b@r!um paying the visa process is irrelevant to such big companies.I just think that if GS chose an intel over an American is not because the first is cheaper but because he fits the requirements better.As simple as that.</p>
<p>I still think it is because it is cheaper though the process is far more complicated than what I have portrayed so far.</p>
<p>Let's say Apple needs a bunch of highly-qualified programmers. Where could they find some? In the open job market, at rival companies or in other countries. I am pretty sure there would be lots of good candidates working for Microsoft but luring them away from Microsoft would be a really expensive process (not just the salary, but the process of identifying those candidates in the first place and the process of getting them to join Apple). But there would probably be even more significant long-term complications: Apple will want to have its employees back and the resulting rivalry between Microsoft and Apple would cost both of them a fortune. Thus, it is a lot cheaper to simply hire foreign professionals in the first place.</p>
<p>There are two ways to optimize:
What is the best worker I can get for a given price, and what is the least I have to pay for a worker with a given profile? Both of them aim to maximize production while minimizing cost and it makes no sense whatsoever for a company to pursue another strategy.</p>
<p>Anyway, I would totally agree that the market should regulate itself. But I think that the domestic market should regulate itself with only some stabilization from foreign countries. (Imagine a sudden increase in labor demand in a certain sector. In the short run that deficit can to some extend be compensated by foreign workers, but there should still be a shortage left that drives salaries in that sector up and will lead to more people aspiring a career in this field in the long run (this process can be aided by additional training programs etc). Once there are more American workers available, the number of foreign workers can be reduced again.)</p>
<p>Imagine everyone with a work offer would be able to get a visa. That would not only apply to highly qualified professionals working in IT and consulting but also bus drivers, office clerks and dining hall employees. Millions of foreigners would be hired as cheap replacements for American workers, pushing down the wage level until the standard of living in the US becomes so poor that the net immigration goes back to zero. There is a reason why no country in the world gives work permissions to anyone who wants them.</p>
<p>b@r!um I'm not talking about hiring people directly from other countries but from the U.S universities. I mean they should let the companies hire intels who are studying at the U.S.</p>
<p>Lol, that would open an entirely new market: cheap degrees, as cheap as possible, regardless of the quality of education. And with pretty much a guarantee that one will be able to work in the States after graduation, a lot more students would be willing to take out big loans to finance their college education and there will probably be more loan options for internationals (w/o co-signer) as well. The basic problem would remain the same: the American labor market would be flooded with new workers. I do not think that this would be a good idea at all...</p>
<p>I've followed some of these arguments loosely. Barium how would it "open an entirely new market: cheap degrees, as cheap as possible, regardless of the quality of education." ? From what I know all recognized universities are part from an education association, say SACS in the south. If Mickey Mouse college would want to operate in order to attract students it would need to be accredited by not only SACS, but by other accreditation agencies. For example for business it would be the AACSB. If students saw that these "universities" were not accredited they would go to another one. Even then, employers would know the crappy education given at such place; and thus not hire from there.</p>
<p>Why should McDonald's care where you got your college degree from as long as you can make burgers fast and reliably?</p>
<p>A regulation like that would open a backdoor for pretty much anyone to immigrate into the States legally. All they have to do is take out a loan to attend a crappy university for a few years, or maybe they could even do the first 3 years at an online university or at a university in their home country and just transfer to an American university for the last year?</p>
<p>Just thought this might be relevant to the above discussion.</p>
<p>I found this bit particularly interesting:</p>
<p>"...A 2003 study by the Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta disputes the notion that foreign professional workers reduce the wages of American workers.[1] This research finding makes sense; after all, by law, H-1B visa holders must be paid market wages.</p>
<p>Naturally, it is not costless to locate, hire, and document immigrant labor, and these costs reach upwards of $6,000 per worker.[2] Given that the Senate Judiciary Committee proposal includes an additional $500 “recapture fee” per additional visa, the costs to employers using recaptured visas will rise. Immigrant labor will actually be more expensive than domestic labor."</p>
<p>I went to an immigration workshop today at Haverford and we discussed a few issues regarding H-1B visas and OPT that many students might not be aware of:</p>
<p>Right now you have to hold a Bachelor's degree at the time that a company petitions for a H-1B, i.e. at April 1st, the first day that one can petition for a H-1B (this year the cap was reached on the very first day; maybe the situation will be less intense in future years). However, at most colleges you do not receive your degree until May, which means we cannot apply for a H-1B in the same year that we graduate. So we will most likely have to rely on OPT to work straight out of college and apply for H-1B during the year after we graduate.</p>
<p>The problem: H-1B's do not allow you to work until October 1st, but OPT will run out earlier than that. You have to start OPT at most 60 days after graduation; assuming you graduate on May 15 and you use the entire 60-day grace period before beginning work, your OPT starts at July 15 and will run out by July 14 the following year - but your H-1B visa does not allow you to work until October 1st! So there is almost a 3 month gap in which we are not able to work in the States legally!!!</p>
<p>(I hope this makes sense. I am having a hard time writing it up in a non-confusing way.)</p>
<p>Possible solutions:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>At the end of the OPT period, enroll in a graduate program that gives credit for internships (= > CPT!). That way you can work under a student visa and keep your job until your H-1B becomes valid.</p></li>
<li><p>Graduate at the end of the fall semester instead of in May. That way you can apply for a H-1B in the April following graduation and you can work with OPT until you get your H-1B in October.</p></li>
<li><p>Work for a company that also has branches abroad. At the end of your OPT period they can send you abroad until your H-1B becomes valid.</p></li>
<li><p>Use your OPT for internships before graduation and get connections to one or more companies, then return to your home country and work there while applying for a H-1B.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Of course, that assumes that your H-1B petition gets approved at all...</p>
<p>
[quote]
A 2003 study by the Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta disputes the notion that foreign professional workers reduce the wages of American workers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I did not read the entire article, but this makes probably sense considering that the number of foreign professional workers is strictly limited. However, if we were to allow everyone with a US college degree to work in the States, the number of foreign workers would multiply and that would most definitely impact wages significantly.</p>
<p>One might go further to assert that while foreign workers have not reduced the wages of American workers, they may have slowed down the rate of salary increases, but I am not going there right now.</p>
<p>Falling wages may not necessarily be a bad thing. Consumers will probably benefit from the resulting fall in prices, and in fact you can show using economic analysis that the benefits to society from opening up the labor market will outweigh the costs.</p>
<p>The problem however is that this leads to a redistribution of income from workers to consumers that's hard to redress. Plus making the economy dependent on foreign workers can leave the economy more unstable. And maybe most importantly, workers in US constitute a much more powerful political voice than consumers, so there is not much chance of foreign workers getting any leeway on this issue anyway.</p>
<p>Btw b@r!um excellent post on the process of getting H-1B visas. Students thinking of working in the US after graduation should definitely consider these issues before commiting to anything.</p>
<p>this post was really useful in helping me out. i feel sort of "cheated" because I had always thought the US was very open to foreign talents but after reading the posts on this issue, i am starting to rethink my position. I applied to several selective LAC, thinking that their UG programs would open doors to many employment opportunities but i guess, now, that's not really the case then. if so, what are the chances of getting into grad schools? that would seem to improve chances, no? and i've heard that it's near impossible for intels to enter med school.</p>
<p>hi all;
this is really rich and big web site and i hope that i could have good advices and ideas from here.
i am going to college next year , I want to roll in a major that i can work at the best company MICROSOFT after my 4 years of study.
by the way i am considered to be an overseas or an international student ?
i know it's too early to think of that .
thanx</p>
<p>zax, most school define international students "as anyone who is not a citizen or permanent resident of the United States. American citizens who reside in other countries or who attend foreign schools are NOT considered international students"</p>
<p>You are an overseas applicants if you do not live in North America regardless of your citizenship status, and an international applicant if you are not a US citizen or a permanent resident regardless of where you live. Note that you can be both or neither. In short, one refers to the location of an applicant and the other one to his or her immigration status.</p>
<p>In general "overseas" applicant is just a label without any consequences, while your status as an international applicant usually has a significant impact on your admission decision and financial aid eligibility.</p>