The University of Michigan's Volatile Future

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

<p>With the new tuition increase, the University of Michigan has solidified its position as the nation's most expensive public school and to be one of the stingiest with FA among the top 5 public schools(UCB, UVA, UNC and UCLA). As a Michigan resident, I am disappointed with the inflation of tuition costs at Michigan and truly believe the in-state financial advantage of attending Michigan is starting to dissipate.</p>

<p>While 5 years ago, most of the smart kids at my high school(UMich feeder school) attended Michigan, things appear to be changing. From what I've heard from children of family friends and acquaintances who graduated high school in Michigan this year, most of these students are opting to attend Wayne State or MSU instead because of the significantly lower costs or are going out of state to attend the elite privates because of the great financial aid.</p>

<p>As someone who grew up admiring the school, I feel like it is truly stuck between a rock and a hard place. Michigan either needs to cut tuition costs for in-state students and raise out of state tuition costs, improve its Financial Aid program significantly or privatize.</p>

<p>If neither of these three things happen in the coming future, the University of Michigan, which was a solid top 10 school in the 1990s, will no longer even be mentioned in the conversation for the top 25 schools and will risk falling into the 30s in the USNews ranking system due to plummeting selectivity, quality of student body, student resources, etc.</p>

<p>Its enrollment, in my humble opinion, is far too large to meet the needs of its students and especially the in-state kids who depend on the university as a cheap schooling option.</p>

<p>I am interested in the opinions of others who are currently affiliated with the school as we look towards the future.</p>

2

<p>Is the big difference the amount of FA these schools tend to offer (MSU being much less stingy than UMich) or the actual tuition costs without FA?</p>

<p>How much more expensive is UMich than MSU without FA or anything? According to the MSU cost calculator thing, my cost of tuition instate for 18 credits would be ~$6500, for 16 credits would be $5811.75. At UMich it would be $5809 for up to 18 credits (I looked at 16 because that’s what I’m actually taking even though 18 is the same price). Looks to me like the price is the same/better at UMich.</p>

3

<p>“With the new tuition increase, the University of Michigan has solidified its position as the nation’s most expensive public school and to be one of the stingiest with FA among the top 5 public schools(UCB, UVA, UNC and UCLA). As a Michigan resident, I am disappointed with the inflation of tuition costs at Michigan and truly believe the in-state financial advantage of attending Michigan is starting to dissipate.”</p>

<p>Not really. UNC is the only school among the top 5 publics that costs significantly less and that graduates its students with significantly less debt than Michigan. When you factor in cost of living, Cal and UCLA are at least as expensive. UVa is only about 10% cheaper. In the case of all four of those universities, undergrads graduate with an average debt of $20,000. I don’t see how Michigan is any different. At the end of the day, Michigan reamins one of the best buys for in-state students. Not only is Michigan a bargain at $23,000/year (room and board included), but it meets 100% of demonstrated need. Of course, some students will fall through the cracks (that happens everywhere), but by and large, to in-state students, Michigan is an amazing bargain. Attending a university that most respected academics and corporate leaders regard as a top 10 university for $23,000/year is a great deal, no matter how you slice it. As for out of state students, Michigan is no more expensive than its peers. In fact, with the exception of Cal, UCLA and UVa, most of Michigan’s peers (the Ivy League, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Chicago etc…) are more expensive. Some of them may be more generous, but on the whole, Michigan is highly discounted for over 65% of its students, so I still think that the average student pays less to attend Michigan. </p>

<p>“While 5 years ago, most of the smart kids at my high school(UMich feeder school) attended Michigan, things appear to be changing. From what I’ve heard from children of family friends and acquaintances who graduated high school in Michigan this year, most of these students are opting to attend Wayne State or MSU instead because of the significantly lower costs or are going out of state to attend the elite privates because of the great financial aid.”</p>

<p>Too bad. I guess Michigan is attracting a wealthier breed because they are still maintaing a yield rate of 45%. But quite frankly, I find it funny that you would think WSU and MSU are acceptable alternatives when they cost only $20,000 less over fours years and yet, you think it is perfectly reasonable to spend $130,000 more to attend Chicago and Duke. Are you saying that WSU and MSU are on par with Michigan? Your logic doesn’t make much sense. Are you saying it is ok for a student to spend $130,000 more on Chicago than on Michigan but it is not ok for a student to spend $20,000 more on Michigan than on MSU or WSU? As it stands, Michigan is NOT that much more expensive than WSU or MSU as you seem to indicate. WSU and MSU cost roughly $18,000/year whereas Michigan costs $23,000/year. I don’t know many people who would chose to go for WSU at a cost of $80,000 when they could attend Michigan for $100,000. </p>

<p>“As someone who grew up admiring the school, I feel like it is truly stuck between a rock and a hard place. Michigan either needs to cut tuition costs for in-state students and raise out of state tuition costs, improve its Financial Aid program significantly or privatize.”</p>

<p>You never admired Michigan. If you did, you would not continuously claim that Michigan is inferior and not a top 25 university. You would not have chosen to attend Duke at more than twice the cost if you admired Michigan. You would not have come on this forum each time Michigan lost a football game last season to gloat. </p>

<p>“If neither of these three things happen in the coming future, the University of Michigan, which was a solid top 10 school in the 1990s, will no longer even be mentioned in the conversation for the top 25 schools and will risk falling into the 30s in the USNews ranking system due to plummeting selectivity, quality of student body, student resources, etc.”</p>

<p>Michigan’s student selectivity rank was barely in the top 30 and its acceptance rate was close to 60% back in 2000. According to the last selectivity ranking, Michigan was 18th and its acceptance rate was 42%. I don’t see how its selectivity is plummeting. If anything, Michigan is solidifying itself as one of the most selective universities in the nation. Hell, Cornell, Duke and Chicago are not considered that much more slective than Michigan. Their selectivty rank is in the #11-#20 range too. As far as student resources go, I am not sure I know what you are talking about. Michigan’s resources are incredible. A friend of mine who studied architecture at Cornell when I was a graduate student there visited the new Ross building because it is the talk of the architecure community these days. The Medical complex is one of the mest in the World and the construction of 4 new state of the art buildings and the purchase of the Pfizer research labs should make the resources availlable to students even greater. North campus Engineering facilities are sick!Michigan’s endowment, which at $200 million a mere 20 years ago barely made the top 30 university endowments in the US, today stands at a whopping $7.6 billion (this will go down by 20% as a result of the market adjustment) and is among the 6 or 7 largest among universities. In fact, the endowment has grown by 3000% over 20 years, which is twice more than the second fastest growing endowment. I would not worry too much about resources and selectivity. In this department, Michigan is actually eating the competition. </p>

<p>“Its enrollment, in my humble opinion, is far too large to meet the needs of its students and especially the in-state kids who depend on the university as a cheap schooling option.”</p>

<p>I agree that Michigan should be smaller. That is the only part of your entire post that makes sense and is not filled with hateful poison. I have constantly been saying that Michigan would operate much better if it had 16,000-20,000 undergrads. 26,000 is just too much. </p>

<p>“I am interested in the opinions of others who are currently affiliated with the school as we look towards the future.”</p>

<p>“we”? Who’s “we” exactly? Start respecting Michigan and standing up for your supposed state before you make such an unbelievable statement. I am more of a Michigander than you are and unlike you, I owe nothing to that state. </p>

<p>A few facts to consider, the most important aspect to a university’s future are its facilities, its faculty, its research and its endowment. Michigan is among the top 10 in all four of those domains. I don’t see the volatility. If anything, Michigan is better positioned to remain among the top 10 universities as it always has.</p>

4

<p>“As someone who grew up admiring the school, I feel like it is truly stuck between a rock and a hard place.”</p>

<p>Oh come on, are you serious about this? You clearly don’t seem like someone who grew up admiring the school, you consistently ignored the fact that Michigan is still one of the most prestigious universities in this country, on par with the likes of Cornell, Berkeley, Northwestern, Rice, Duke, UCLA, and Chicago to name a few.</p>

5

<p>Michigan is worth the price. Trust me, in Ohio, we easily pay the same for much worse universities (Miami of Ohio, anyone?)</p>

6

<p>^^ Michigan is definitely worth the price. I’m an incoming graduate student, and I didn’t have to take out excessive loans to fund my education (my COA is $30,000 and less, and I’m enrolled in two ranked top-5 master’s programs!). My friends at private colleges are wondering how they will come up with $50k-60k to meet their COA.</p>

7

<p>Michigan is definitely worth the price for in-state students. They shouldn’t even complain about paying 23K per year, especially when OOS students pay 50K per year (and don’t use that we pay state taxes argument…we pay our own state taxes too, but we can’t help it if our state university isn’t even close to Michigan in terms of reputation). For out of state students, Michigan is definitely a rip-off. Yes, other comparable universities cost about the same and most privates cost more, but that doesn’t mean those universities are worth the price either. My point is, college tuitions are way inflated in the US and its absolutely disgusting how they keep raising tuitions every single freakin year.</p>

8

<p>I think Michigan is quite the bargain for in-state, especially if you get a science, engineering, or business degree. In USNWR, Michigan has a very good peer ranking, and even if you are paying full amount for in-state, it is a bargain. Getting into the Ross School of Business is defnitely a bargain, versus paying $130,000 more over 4 years. for a private school, and Ross being #3 in the country.</p>

9

<p>Speaking of volatility, most private elites have been fiscally liberal over the last 20 years, hired relatively large faclties and relied heavily on their endowments. Michigan and other elite publics such as UVa, have beem fiscally conservative, cut costs where not needed and never relied too heavily on their endowments. Now that endowments have shrunk by 20%-30% at most universities, fiscally liberal private universities who relied heavily on their endowments and on the expectations that endowments would continue to grow by 10% annually are finding themselves in a position where they must actually lay faculty off and cut costs that the more fiscally conservative publics had to cut over the years. How ironic. Oh, and while Michigan’s private peers are reducing headcount, Michigan is planning on hiring 100 new faculty over the next 4 years. I wonder where the volatility lies!</p>

<p>And I find it funny how ring<em>of</em>fire mentioned the recent increase in tuition but failed to mention the greater increase in Michigan’s financial aid budget, which has been increased by a record 12%.</p>

10

<p>I am not taking sides but Alexandre your math is wrong. </p>

<p>“And I find it funny how ring<em>of</em>fire mentioned the recent increase in tuition but failed to mention the greater increase in Michigan’s financial aid budget, which has been increased by a record 12%.”</p>

<p>Since tution/COA base is much higher than average financial aid base, even thought COA hike percentage is lower than the FA budget increase, in terms of absolute value, the average amount students pay after financial aid is still higher significantly. Just saying…</p>

11

<p>Bearcats, you are pointing to the obvious. But just as obvious is the fact that tuition hikes are intended for the majority who can afford it. The financial aid increases are for the minority that cannot.</p>

12

<p>I was considering both U of M and MSU, expecting to have to chose between a better school or a lower cost, but, surprisingly, MSU offered me less merit based aid than U of M. After looking at the total cost estimates that both universities sent, I realized that the difference between the two was only 2k per year. So MSU is NOT a cheap alternative to U of M - in my case, with financial aid included, I would have paid the same for either.</p>

13

<p>Another person questioning the decision-making of students who choose MSU because it is going be “substantially” cheaper. They haven’t done the math.</p>

<p>Wayne State may be a better bargain, but people who need aid need to look at that closely, too. Some students graduate from WSU with very high loan burdens.</p>

14

<p>

The schools you list as being peers to Michigan have much better financial aid programs. The difference between a Duke and a Michigan education for me was about 25-30K at most. Most of my peers whose parents make between 100K and 200K didn’t get a dime from Michigan besides the Regents Scholarship. A qualified in-state student would be better served going to MSU because he would be eligible for a lot of merit money and a cheaper tuition regardless with UMich’s current undergraduate financial structure.</p>

<p>

Alexandre, MSU and Wayne State become far cheaper for kids who are academically qualified for Michigan because of all the merit money they throw out, so the difference is much greater. Lots of my friends got full or half rides to WSU or MSU and didn’t get a dime from Michigan.</p>

<p>A yield rate of 45% for a public school is nothing to be proud of and I think it will only get worse with time. If a student’s parents are rich, then cost is a non-issue and the student can spend as much as he wants to go to Chicago over Michigan. However, if cost is a huge problem, then many in-state students are now opting for MSU or WSU to save money. Like I said, Michigan is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place.</p>

<p>In this tough economy, people are looking to save money for their undergraduate education. For a modest in-state student, 20k is a lot of money.</p>

15

<p>Not really ring<em>of</em>fire, Michigan is doing great and its yield rate has improved over the years, from slightly under 40% to slightly over 45%. This year it dipped a little, but it should still be well over 40%. </p>

<p>“In this tough economy, people are looking to save money for their undergraduate education. For a modest in-state student, 20k is a lot of money.”</p>

<p>I agree, which is why I was shocked to see you say that you would pay $220,000 for Chicago when you could attend Michigan for $90,000. I have openly and often recommend students pick schools over Michigan for cost reasons. But on average, MSU and WSU do not cost a lot less than Michigan. Of course, if one came from a middle income or lower middle income family and had a full ride to MSU or WSU and had to pay full price for Michigan, I would recommend WSU or MSU. But those cases are not in the majority.</p>

<p>Anyway, to the majority of students in the state of Michigan, attending WSU or MSU will not cost significantly less than attending Michigan because Michigan meets 100% of need. So those who are forced to pay more to attend Michigan can generally attend it. I am sure some students fall through the cracks, but for the majority, Michigan will make more financial sense. But comparing WSU to Michigan is nonesense. It would be like comparing UNC-Charlotte to Duke or East Carolina University to UNC-Chapel Hill. If money is a huge issue because your family income is very low and somehow, Duke or UNC did not meet their obligations, then you obviously have no choice, but that doesnot happen very often.</p>

<p>“The schools you list as being peers to Michigan have much better financial aid programs. The difference between a Duke and a Michigan education for me was about 25-30K at most.”</p>

<p>No they don’t ring<em>of</em>fire. Duke’sFA program is not better than Michigan. As you said, Michigan would have cost you $25,000 less than Duke. On average, to the majority of students, Michigan would cost as much as Duke, which is also shown by the average indebtedness upon graduation. At both Duke and Michigan, the average student graduates with $23,000 of debt. As such, the average student is expected to contribute equally to their debt at both universities. You aren’t keeping in mind the fact that Michigan is significantly cheaper than its peers to start with. As such, Michigan does not have to give out as much financial aid.</p>

16

<p>If anything, in-state tuition should be RAISED and OOS tuition should be LOWERED, considering only 7% of UMich’s operating budget comes from the state. This is drastically less than most (if not all) comparable state universities.</p>

17

<p>

I think Michigan is arguably a top 25 university. Duke is not costing even close to as much as twice Michigan’s cost. We’re talking about a 30K difference and not a 100K one.</p>

<p>I didn’t attend Michigan because I didn’t get any financial aid, merit scholarships or get pre admitted to Ross. Heck, I didn’t even get the Regents scholarship. Apparently my 3.85 GPA with over 10 AP classes, my 35 ACT score, my involvement and leadership in a myriad of extracurricular activities, my unique international background and my passion for business didn’t shine through to Michigan. Oh well, their loss. I’m still a huge Michigan fan and I’m just critical of the football team because it has such high standards to live up to. I feel the same way about Duke Basketball.</p>

<p>

Is this a joke? Do you want me to pull out the SAT percentiles again for you again?</p>

<p>

I have lived in a Michigan for more than a decade Alexandre while you were in Ann Arbor for four years for college. You constantly defend the city of Detroit and pretend to be an authority on its financial situation while you remain unaware of the gritty realities that people living there face on a regular basis as you have probably only visited once or twice before as a tourist. You are unaware of its immense cultural, musical and professional sports history.</p>

<p>I grew up in Michigan, attended its public school system, have a dad who works for Ford, have attended the Auto Show EVERY YEAR for a decade without fail, have visited every part of the state and our family has had season tickets at one point for every professional sports team in Detroit. My parents have paid tax dollars to keep the university, that you as a foreign national were lucky enough to take advantage of, a world-class institution for a long time and my cousins have donated a lot of money as well(even to the new Ross building) to keep the university’s national standing strong.</p>

<p>I bet you’ve never been to Belle Isle Nature Zoo, gone ice fishing in Lake Superior, gambled in Traverse City, seen the Silver Lake Sand Dunes, visited the Benton Harbor lighthouse, gone to a football game in East Lansing AND Ann Arbor, seen a basketball game at the Breslin Center AND Crisler Arena, gone camping in Kensington Park and eaten fudge in Mackinaw and stayed at the Grand Hotel.</p>

<p>Who’s the true Michigander? If anything, you are not included in the “we”.</p>

18

<p>With the new tuition increase, the University of Michigan has solidified its position as the nation’s most expensive public school and to be one of the stingiest with FA among the top 5 public schools(UCB, UVA, UNC and UCLA).</p>

<p>I have to disagree with you on your first line. I chose michigan over UCLA, mainly because of UCLA’s FA offer. It was nothing compared to michigan. I’d say michigan is more generous than the 2 UC’s you listed, to me at least.</p>

19

<p>I did come across that for many Michigan universities for in state students compared to: Pennslyvania State University- University Park, University of Minnesota- Twin Cities, University of Iowa- Iowa City etc… cost nearly the same.</p>

20

<p>I actually lived in Michigan for 7 years ring<em>of</em>fire, 4 years as a student and 3 years as a tax-paying employee at Ford and later, Eaton. Have you personally ever paid taxes to the state of Michigan ring<em>of</em>fire?</p>

<p>Furthermore, I have in fact gambled in Traverse City (I love TC), attended several games (2 football, 3 hockey and 1 basketball) at MSU, seen the Silver Lake sand dunes, visited Benton Harbor lighthouse, stayed at the Grand Hotel in Mackinaw Island and been all over the state, although I have not gone to any Zoo (I hate seeing animals caged up) or ice skating (I can barely walk on ice, let alone skate on it). But I did get to go to the beach on Lake Michigan and did go to Tapawingo (one of the best restaurants in the nation) hidden in the small city of Charlevoix at the very tip of the mitten! I have also spent some time in the UP. I guess one does a lot in seven years when they are in the 18-30 years old age group.</p>