The USC MFA - Myth or Might ???

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>Hi All,
I am international prospective student from India who is working towards applying to the spring 2012 MFA program for Film Direction at USC. I have no contacts with anyone who has ever studied in the USC cinematic school and hence wished to use this forum to find some help for my concerns.</p>

<p>I was just wondering that if I was lucky enough to be admitted , the total cost of the 3 year program would be around 150 K dollars. Coming from a middle class family that kind of funding for an education would be overwhelming. International students have no financial aid at all too. I agree that the industry is extremely competitive and demanding but I am ready to sweat it out. I wished to know from experienced members as to the possibilities of employment post such an education.</p>

<p>USC's strongest claim to fame in this area is its supposedly amazing alumni network and industry connections. Is that a myth or a fact ?? What are the average chances of a passout to survive and pay off the loans?? How long could it take for getting a decent job to start paying off the loans?? Will it be just a flashy dream following a sincere passion that could lead to never ending bankruptcy and debt ?? Is it really worth the risk ?? </p>

<p>I for sure know that the educational experience at USC would be unparalleled, unfortunately passion for cinema will never pay our fess right ??
Its a life changing scenario and these questions keep haunting me as I keep preparing my portfolio for submission. Its so hard when you are in a distant land to gather such information and I request all possible assistance in my quest to come to a conclusive decision. Your replies will help me plan better for the inevitable.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot in advance</p>

2

<p>lemme just say I like your mannerism.
I have no idea how worthy 150K MFA is wherever you are going, but if you pay it, you will become, is what we foreigners are made to dream here in US.
It helps economy going, school get “diversity”, you get smart. win win win.
good luck to you, hope someone can help you in details you need.
georgiagirl, madbean (or maddnenmed?) Wheaty, etc should be out there.</p>

3

<p>On Monday I’ll have a much to add to this topic. Busy weekend! :)</p>

4

<p>I would suggest you contact the school and ask them for a list of where recent graduates work, and in what capacity they are working. Are they cinematographers? Directors? Editors? Producers? Then look up the average salary for those professions. A few people will go on to be the famous directors and film-makers who make the large salaries, the rest will happily work in the profession, but may never be the famous names we all know. Here is one link for salaries in the industry: [Media</a> – Film Visual Effects Salaries - Media – Film Visual Effects Salary Survey - PayScale](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Media_--_Film_Visual_Effects/Salary]Media”>http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Media_--_Film_Visual_Effects/Salary)
Whether it is worth it, will depend upon you. Is this what you want to do with the rest of your life? Will it make you happy? Then, yes. If it is a way to become very rich, it may or may not do that. The contacts from USC ARE first rate. You will meet many people and have many opportunities to become known. If you have drive and talent, you will have a great shot at happiness and probably success as well. Good luck to you.</p>

5

<p>maddenmd… Here is an interesting site showing hourly wages at various vfx houses: [VFXWages:</a> Public Beta](<a href=“http://www.vfxwages.com/]VFXWages:”>http://www.vfxwages.com/)</p>

<p>If you are interested in the vfx industry, click on <a href=“http://www.vfxwages.com/news/[/url]”>http://www.vfxwages.com/news/&lt;/a&gt; for some very interesting articles.</p>

6

<p>Creartive,</p>

<p>I typed up a long message but erased it when I found more factual links to underscore points I was trying to make. I have visited the USC campus many times and it is a fantastic university. The School of Cinematic Arts is by far the best film school in the world for many reasons. The facilities are jaw dropping and as if that’s not enough USC is building more for SCA. It’s unbelievable. The film professors are the best in the business and USC’s location is ideally suited for internships and industry connections. USC-SCA has 10,500 grads and their film alumni base is by far the largest in the industry.</p>

<p>Here are some links I thought you might like:</p>

<p>USC in India
[USC</a> Leadership Delegation to India](<a href=“http://indiadelegation.usc.edu/]USC”>http://indiadelegation.usc.edu/)</p>

<p>Fellow Indian student: [Student</a> Stories - USC School of Cinematic Arts](<a href=“http://cinema.usc.edu/admissions/studentstories/view.cfm?id=11573]Student”>USC Cinematic Arts | Student Stories)</p>

<p>Myth vs. Reality
[Myth</a> vs. Reality - USC School of Cinematic Arts](<a href=“http://cinema.usc.edu/admissions/mythreality.cfm]Myth”>USC Cinematic Arts | Myth vs. Reality)</p>

<p>Feel free to fire away with questions!
Best,
Wheaty</p>

7

<p>Thanks so much all of you… I guess I will start working on the creative submission materials…after all fortune favours the brave and if one has not tried then perhaps one has not lived.</p>

<p>Will get back to you with further queries and updates…</p>

<p>Cheers</p>

8

<p>Hi. Just saw your thread (where have I been?) and thought I’d add my comments.</p>

<p>My S1 is an undergrad at USC SCA and I work in the entertainment business, so that gives you a little background on my point of view. We are huge fans of the film school at USC which delivers a phenomenal range of opportunities and so many inspiring instructors with film and tv credits of their own. However, the cost is considerable and for those who are thinking about taking on enormous debt to cover the cost, I would seriously think this over. </p>

<p>Working in film, as most know, has almost nothing to do with what degree one holds, what classes one has taken, or what school sweatshirt one wears. Jobs go to those who are talented, lucky, and persevere for years making low wages, working themselves up the ladder. And even then, many just do not make it. It helps more to have an uncle in the business than to get a 3.5 GPA in any film program in the world. And it helps even more to have the right personality for this industry.</p>

<p>Most jobs come from personal contacts with those already working. The most impressive opportunities you will get attending USC will be the access to internships, leads to new openings that never go public, industry get-togethers, power-lunches, and connecting with peer students in the film school who are a crazy talented group. However, people who do not thrive at meeting and making friends, who are not easy pitch-ers, who do not exude casual confidence and charm are at a disadvantage. I think those with the right sort of people skills and communication skills may get the most out of this program, since their ability to make connections will be just as vital as their ability to envision an entire movie. Just sayin’.</p>

<p>It’s also very helpful to make a career in Hollywood to actually move to… Hollywood. Los Angeles is where the work is. As you are not asking about undergrad film programs, I would suggest it is less expensive (as I seem to argue every other thread) to move to L.A., get a regular job, and start making friends in the business than to pay huge tuition just to move to L.A. </p>

<p>But if you want the structure of a great MFA program, top film making training, the insider contacts, help arranging housing, a built in collection of ambitious and fabulous peers, a place to belong–and you can afford $150K and 3 years–you will get a great education. But to keep this real–as thousands learn every year, however, establishing a film/television career is a trickier goal.</p>

9

<p>I´m from Spain and i was thinking of taking a screenwriting MFA at USC. I know screenwriting comes from the heart and all that, and I agree with madbean. it would be much cheaper and easier to come to LA and get a job. The problem is that for us, international students, that is tough. We need a VISA, and in order to get it, we need a bachelor in the US or take a MFA. Noboy is going to hire us abroad, and if we go there and get a job, wouldn´t be in a legal situation. I´m a professional AVID editor, by the way, but I ended up in TV, which is something I hate. That´s why i started to write. </p>

<p>I´ve written a couple of screenplay already, but they are in Spanish, and they need professional help. I know we make movies here, but there are like 7, (or not even that much), that are worthy every year. The rest are lost somewhere and most os the things we produce, never get to the big screen, since they get lost somewhere in the process. And I don´t want that to happen to my movies, or the movies I write. So for us, is it worthy?’ I know this doesn´t guarantee anything, but at least, it is a way to get in touch with the world we love and want to be part of. </p>

<p>Also, in my case, writing in English is going to take a while. I have a bachelor in UM, but I haven´t used English in a looong time. Just from time to time, when I travel and when I watch movies. I know that going to Miami to study and learn English if your first language is Spanish is not the smartest plan, but it happened that way. And I wrote shorts there, and could manage, so… I will be able to do it with effort and patience. </p>

<p>By the way, I´m amazed with the salaries. They seem a little low to me. Not sure though. I mean, I guess an editor might work for at least 2 movies a year to have a decent wage… becuase the chart shows average per job, not per year. Ok. Thank you!!</p>

10

<p>Hello!!</p>

<p>You seemed very informed. </p>

<h1>1 - Please tell me what do you think of The Academy of Art University (San Francisco)?</h1>

<p>I will be studying for my MFA in Film. I really need to get into school now (because this will cover my housing too). I do not live in Cali - And do not know much about the place.</p>

<p>With all the other schools, I’ll have to wait til the FALL (and to see if they accepted me). I’m not sure about this School (whether its just a money grubbing place). but if I can find a JOB I will be able to wait til the FALL SEMESTER for an acceptance letter from the other Institutions. </p>

<h1>2- How likely is it to get a job in Los Angeles?? (within the industry of film OR outside the industry of film)</h1>

<p>I will check Craigslist for a Job and an Apt today. Thanks for sharing (really)</p>

11

<p>Madbean,</p>

<p>Really would love to hear a reply from you about my POST above (what do yo know of the Academy of Art University in San Francisco). Also what is SCA (in reference to USC). Thanks!</p>

12

<p>Hi, indeepwaters. I’m sorry, I don’t know anything about Academy of Art. Others on cc may know more, so I suggest posting a new thread with that school’s name in the title to get more views.</p>

<p>As for SCA it stands for School of Cinematic Arts, the official title of the film school at the University of Southern California–about which this thread was started.</p>

13

<p>Let me give you a different perspective. I looked at the grad program for their MFA in animation for my daughter. Yes, they do have some former Disney animators and some new, great facilities, but I actually didn’t like their program. Why?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The program seemed very…well…fluffy. If you read over their courses, I don’t think you will get a skills oriented feeling.</p></li>
<li><p>I really didn’t like their student work. Check it out. I don’t think you will like most of their work.</p></li>
<li><p>Their program is VERY 2d oriented similar to that of CalArts. There isn’t a lot of 3d training since they believe strongly about providing traditional animation training. This can be good or bad depending on your perspective.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>When I mentioned my fluffy feel about their program, the head of the USC animation program said, “well, they are a research oriented school and not a trade school.” To me, this says volumes!</p>

<p>Bottom Line: Don’t get too enamored with USC solely based on their rankings or reputation.</p>

14

<p>taxguy–that’s for animation. Your points are good ones and each student should look deeply at the philosophy of the programs they wish to enter. However, the OP was asking about Film Production, and that is program is professionally oriented. The most pre-professional majors in SCA are:</p>

<p>Interactive Media
Film Production
Writing for Film & Television</p>

<p>Their Critical Studies major is known as the most academic. </p>

<p>However, when looking at training in film programs, there is a lot of value in learning the fundamentals of filmmaking and storytelling, not to mention the practical real-life value in networking with talented peers who, themselves, will likely go out and take over Hollywood someday, becoming the leaders, studio executives, programming chiefs, talent agents, etc who keep the industry running. </p>

<p>As for animators from USC, 2 years ago one of the SCA’s alums, Lee Unrich, was a speaker at the commencement. Here is his resume:</p>

<p>Unkrich most recently directed the critical and box office smash hit Toy Story 3, which won the Academy Award ® for Best Animated Feature and became the most successful film in animation history, grossing more than $1 billion worldwide. He began his career as a live action editor and director upon his graduation from SCA in 1991. In 1994, he joined the Pixar Animation Studios team and has since played a variety of key creative roles in nearly every animated feature film produced by the studio. He started at Pixar as an editor on Toy Story and continued on to become the supervising film editor on A Bug’s Life. Unkrich made his feature film directorial debut in 1999 as co-director of Toy Story 2, which won the Golden Globe ® for Best Motion Picture, Comedy or Musical. He also co-directed Monsters Inc., and the Academy Award ®-winning Finding Nemo.</p>

<p>I am really not saying that USC made this guy into the creative success he is!! He most likely brought his gifts to the school and they ripened there, to be sure. But when parents and kids look into college programs for creative fields, there is much more to the experience than simply sitting in classes and taking exams. There is a synergy of experiences and inspiration that many find kicks them to the next level.</p>

15

<p>Madbean, you are right. I am speaking about their animation program and NOT their film production program. Can there be successful alumni from USC Cinematic Arts Animation program? Of course! However, the same can be said for any school. All I can say is what I observed about their animation program. I am sure others will have a different take based on their own observations.</p>

16

<p>And taxguy, your observations are very valid. I do not post on cc about animation majors/schools because that is not my field and I don’t know many students who have studied it. </p>

<p>However, for students with creative film-tv career-centered goals, they need to be pretty clear that no college program can guarantee future film world success. Some private universities (like the ivies, for instance, or for film school–USC SCA or NYU Tisch) have mythic reputations, historic traditions, super reach odds for admissions for everyone, and come with huge price tags. And just as there are more CEOs without ivy league undergrad degrees than those that have them, there are more famous directors without connections to the top film schools, than those that have them. Still, when you look at all the work there is in the film/tv industry, there are thousands of creative behind-the-scenes careers other than Oscar-nominated film directors. I have found that the most important quality for success is not the undergrad school, nor even attending college. It is having the right personality to project yourself into a career. This includes being:</p>

<p>1) lucky–right place, right time beats just about everything you learn in college
2) likeable-charisma gets one into more opportunities than talent
3) smart, funny, verbal, think fast on one’s feet
4) social–like to go out and make new friends, always say yes to invitations
5) hardest worker on the planet–when working as an intern, starter grunt job, whatever–never complain, always do more than expected
6) willing to pay one’s dues–able to graciously start at the bottom of the food chain without whining, work Saturdays, pick up someone’s cleaning
7<em>) a great networker with a ton of contacts</em> in the industry who can hire you
8) happy to market oneself/pitch ideas to everyone in all situations. Schmooze factor.
9) business smart–know where the opportunities are, take advantage of strategic intell/insider gossip
10<em>) super talented and can prove it with current spec script/portfolio/reel</em>
11<em>) trained in latest / current technological or industry creative standards</em> OR ability to pick up a lot of new skills on the fly, self-teach
12) happy to actively keep in touch with all your connections, reach out and make more all the time
13<em>) able to end up in the right group of lucky/connected/talented college friends who then all go on to include you in their future award-winning projects</em>
14) an amazing creative visionary–which in some cases means being a little “out there” and original
15) MOST IMPORTANT: driven, tenacious, optimistic, ambitious, upbeat, assertive, energetic, have unwavering belief in yourself even without any proof, adventurous, and be willing to live hand-to-mouth for years without steady income!</p>

<p>The starred items are ones that will benefit from attending top film programs, but they are not the most important in the list. My point is always that while it is a wonderful validation to be selected by USC or NYU for Film School, paying full cost is sobering for many. And attending will be a great education, but will not get you far without the unstarred qualities listed above. Attending a private U is a luxury, frankly, and not even suited to everyone’s tastes. So while I do think attending a college or program with a long tradition of excellence and incredible insider connections is “mighty” (according to OP’s question) and very enriching, is it necessary to actually nurturing a successful career in Hollywood? Not as much as some might hope.</p>

17

<p>Whoa whoa!</p>

<p>I’m currently at USC as an MFA student, and I just wanted to clear our name a bit:</p>

<p>1) This program isn’t purely 2D or 3D, it’s a mixture of both, and we have some incredibly talented people in both arenas. Our classes are also excellent</p>

<p>2) This IS a graduate program, not a trade school, meaning research is involved, and also that by no means are you expected to have an introductory level of skill when entering. If you don’t know how to draw, or think about motion, or have a talent at making visually compelling work, the program wouldn’t work out for you.</p>

<p>3) A lot of the student work here is very eclectic, so I think it’s unfair to sell us short just because all of the work being produced doesn’t look like animation that came out of a big-budget studio. Many of the students here have won prizes in animation showcases around the world, have created a lot of movement in the LA art communities, create work with a blend of technologies that have NEVER been done before, and we basically have state-of-the-art technology literally at the hands of each graduate student’s desk–which cannot be said of CalArts.</p>

18

<p>Lots of good points in the post. Here’s my view.</p>

<p>One of my daughters attended USC for 2 years, undergrad, in the sciences. I have two other daughters: the oldest, who is a very successful artist/painter, who did not attend college, and an aspiring classical musician, who will attend a conservatory somewhere next year.</p>

<p>We are more-middle class, but decided to send our daughter to USC as she was thrilled to go. We heard a lot about the amazing contacts, etc., but as someone else pointed out, for those contacts to work one must be the type of person who goes out and gets them, can easily make small talk at parties, etc. My USC daughter was not that type. She doesn’t like to “show off” as she puts it, so she left USC with zero contacts.</p>

<p>She only attended two years because we would not let her take out loans. She earned a few small scholarships the first year and we paid the remainder ourselves. Our daughter was a talented athlete, but the varsity team she was on would not give her any scholarship money. All of the athletes on scholarship were foreign students, even though my daughter was better than half of them. During her 2nd year, she was trying so hard, but it wasn’t worth the money. We had her transfer to a state school, which was far cheaper, and she will graduate either as valedictorian or summa cum laude.</p>

<p>Although I’ve always liked USC–location, facilites, faculty–I do get the sense that it is a place for wealthy people. All of the parents I met were very wealthy. I know little about the film school, but I can’t imagine that it stands out that much from USC’s science programs or music school. If you can go to a school like this without taking any loans, then do it. If not, it’s not worth taking loans. There are other ways to get into any field, with effort, talent and ingenuity. If my musician daughter wanted to work in the studios in Hollywood, she would move to Los Angeles/Hollywood and network. As another poster said, the salaries in the US are quite low, so you will not be able to pay down a large debt while working your way up.</p>

19

<p>Thanks for posting here, grim. It’s always useful to have someone currently attending a particular program give first-hand views. </p>

<p>woodwinds, just a point about “wealthy parents.” Most private universities in the US include families who can pay full price (wealthy), who traditionally made up the vast majority of private college students over the past 2 centuries. However, over the past twenty years or so there have been an increasing proportion of students receiving FinAid (in USC’s case, about 60% of students), and/or merit awards (at USC, over 20% of incoming freshmen). BUT, I do understand that high middle income families are stuck-- feeling squeezed out if their student doesn’t get significant merit aid.</p>

<p>I agree with your sentiment that students in the arts must not get themselves into deep student loan debt, and I post on cc about that often. See my long post above. :slight_smile: However I will gently argue that USC’s School of Cinematic Arts is quite a drastically different program than their science programs. Those majoring in science, for instance, often go on to further degrees while a film major is a pre-professional degree leading (hopefully) to employment in the field. Neither is a degree from a film program simply a fine art major since film and television production are part a multi-billion dollar industry with hundreds of thousands of career positions–so loans (of a reasonable amount) should be considered in that context. Many of USC’s (and other fine film school’s) graduates go on to industry careers and nice earnings. </p>

<p>As you say, an individual film artist’s effort, talent and luck are key elements to future success, but attending a school ranked the top in the world in this field is akin to attending Harvard or Yale for those in academic majors. USC Film School’s history, reputation, connections, internships, and the training provided is powerful in launching a career in a tightly held company town. Another benefit to a budding film-maker comes from spending 4 years doing creative work among exceptionally talented peers, since making films (unlike playing piano or painting a picture or learning biology) is often collaborative and a team effort. In this regard, there are many rising film and animation programs at other colleges that are also excellent at offering great instructors, classes and peers. Depending on FinAid or other aid offered individual students, these other schools may be more affordable, and that must always be part of a family’s final decision. We all want to help launch our kids in the strongest way possible, but must be reasonable about costs.</p>

20

<p>This thread is about Film Production, not animation, but since the MFA in Animation was woven into the conversation, above, I’ll add this: at admitted students day last year, we, and, more importantly, DS, were very impressed by the graduate-level animation work at USC SCA. The graduate program may be a bit more experimental in tone than some programs (so we were told) and perhaps is not as ‘pre-professional’ as USC SCA Film Production, but the facilities and MFA animation students my son spent time with were top notch. He noted that the grad students had “sleeping bags next to their work stations;” DS really appreciated that, um…intensity. :)</p>

<p>Also, the SCA animation professor who contacted us later was wonderful.</p>