The Value of AP classes

<p>OK, I posted this on the AP board earlier in the hopes of coming up with a serious discussion, but it got kinda off topic pretty quickly (a lot of people were debating about the scoring system of the test,whereas I was focusing on class content. So I'll post it again. What are your thoughts? It seems like there are a lot more straight discussions on this particular board than the AP one. My apologies if you've already seen this or think it's a lame topic. I 've been getting a lot of enjoyment debating this with friends lately.</p>

<p>"Are APs overrated?"</p>

<p>'m sure I'll come under a lot of fire for writing this, but I will give my honest opinion. Does anyone else on the board find the whole AP system overrated? I think that the classes are great things to have for high schools in need of accelerated classes for students in an otherwise watered down academic environment. But I have serious complaints for those who think APs are the be all and end all of a high school career. My main problem is the extremely test-driven curriculum. To me it seems that the AP classes are so geared toward getting kids prepared for the test that the intellectual material can easily be watered down. This is especially true of humanities courses, where a curriculum can be much more subjective than something like, say, calculus, which is a pretty set course as it is.
I'll use history as an example. History is one of those subjects that is pretty subjective, as there is SO MUCH of it. For me, having taken two AP history classes last year, I came out of the experience disappointed. I had two really great history teachers last year, one who was more focused on the AP and one who was less focused. My AP US teacher was great and really knew his material, but it seemed that he worried a lot about preparing us for the test. We went through US history in great detail and I immensely enjoyed his lectures, but to me it seemed that the AP curriculum was limiting what he could teach. In an effort to get through the AP curriculum, we had to skip things like military history and also had to seriously limit discussion time. My best assignments were after the AP when I got to do legit research about topics in depth. My other teacher (Euro) was much less focused on the AP and had a more seminar styled classand I think I got a lot more out of the material in the class in all. I think to a certain extent, being able to take fewer historic events in a class and analyze them in depth is a better way to learn history (one can RELATE to it, rather than forcing down facts). As a result, in this class we were less prepared for the test and I had to memorize a lot of random stuff to prepare. While the AP teaches how to "make connections", a lot of these seemed forced and more constrictive to discussion and free thought.</p>

<p>This particular topic leads me to another qualm of mine: the test format. While it is hard to come up with an intellectual standardized test, I think that the AP in particular glosses over insight for mere fact regurgitation. I was happy that the test was not 100% multiple choice, but the free response questions in the humanities really got to me. I think it is impossible to measure a student's talent based on a 30 minute timed essay. Upon reading sample essays in class, my first reaction to the high scoring essays was "Oh goody, they want us to spit out all the facts we possibly can". While it is possible to make some connections in 30 minutes, those are not likely to be the most thought provoking or original. How can they be in 30 minutes? I think it is more important to examine how a student can draw conclusions from historical research (one reason I like the Euro DBQ).</p>

<p>This leads me to another irksome topic: the AP scholars awards. It seems that so many students have caught on to the AP-craze and have opted to take as many tests as they possibly can. This seems especially driven by the prospect of college admissions and AP scholar awards (to my mind, an incentive for the CB to make extra cash by drawing in overachievers). I know ALOT of kids at my uber-competetive school who try to self-study as many courses as they can (even those that don't relate to their interests in the least). Most of these kids seem to be merely cramming review books to study. How is a college impressed by this? This approach seems pretty anti-intellectual to me. Can't colleges see through the kids who are glossing the AP curriculum? Might the kids be better off studying something of interest in their free time rather than just stuffing more info down their throats. (I think it's great if a kid interested in econ self studied the class if they couldn't take it in school, mind you; I'm talkin' about the kids that self-study psych, for example, because it's "easy and looks better on apps"). If I were an adcom, I think I'd prefer a kid who, while they may not have taken as many APs, is pursuing something of interest.</p>

<p>So here's the question: If you had only one period and could take a non AP, non weighted course (though it can still be rigorous) in, say Russian history (or organic chem, or C++, or whatever else you love), versus an AP class in a topic of less interest to you, which would you take? Do colleges look more highly on more APs (and therefore "the most demanding curriculum available") or on those who may opt for less APs in order to take a class of more interest? Does the AP test limit intellectuality or enhance it? How do you feel about APs in general?</p>

<p>this is not meant to offend anyone, I respect all opinions on the matter, but I think this is a good discussion starter (it certainly is a topic of much dispute among my super-competetive friends...)</p>

<p>A true value of an AP class to me (class, not just self-studying for an exam) is that it tends to draw better students and better teachers. Majority of my son's AP teachers had PhDs. I honestly could not care less if it helps him in admissions or not. I do know that he has gotten an excellent education (yes, even by Russian standards) in these classes.</p>

<p>I went to HS and college "back in the day" (although not quite as long ago as your parents). Here's my take. I took a few AP classes, then attended a public U ranked in the top 10. The AP classes had almost NOTHING in common with real college classes taught by nationally renowned profs, or even the lower-division ones. The focus in college is on synthesizing material and making a logical argument, the emphasis in HS seemed to be on memorizing facts.</p>

<p>That said, colleges look for students who take "the most challenging courseload available" as you noted. If you're thinking of applying to a very selective college, you have to play the game. Take the AP class.</p>

<p>So take IB. ;)</p>

<p>I don't want to start a debate (so don't go there!), but we definetly didn't "spit out facts" in our History HL class. The essays with the top scores were always the ones that took various opinions or views on a given topic, applied them to the facts, and wrote a great argument. </p>

<p>Just take a look at the IA/WL requirement for IB in the humanities courses as well as the TOK and EE papers. They really teach you to write well and form opinions and arguments rather than spitting out facts. They even have a "hollistic judgement" criteria in the EE mark scheme. </p>

<p>I do think that both the AP and IB programs depend on the teachers. Some of our teachers were amazing, others taught from the book and to the test to a point where it was actually annoying to attend a particular class. That being said, what class isn't focused on the test? At least here (in my province), we have diploma exams for each academic subject at the end of senior year and the regular classes are even more focused on the exam than the IB classes. I've heard similar stories about US english classes being so SAT-driven that they barely do anything else but practice for it. </p>

<p>Taking a challenging curriculum is important, but so is developing character through passion. I agree with you there, and would opt to take a "less challenging" class than one I had no interest in. A perfect example is my schedule for this year, when I took spanish 10 in my IB spare. Most of my friends opted for grade 12 physics or biology (albeit at the regular level), because the way our IB schedules work, we can only fit in two sciences at the IB level. I can't stand physics, so I didn't take it. The typical response was the "oh, why aren't you taking all three sciences?" with a disapointed sigh after I told them languages were more interesting to me (and more useful, seeing as how my plans for the next four years involve international relations). </p>

<p>There is value in taking a challenging course load, but only if it actually challenges you or you enjoy taking it. If you took AP whatever because it was "easy" and would look good, you would only be cheating yourself out of time that could be used for something more worthwhile to your personal development. So to answer your question: by all means, take AP/IB/honours, but take it because you want to, because it will mean something to you, because it will give you a better education, or because it will help you better understand the world. Besides, what college wants a student body full of AP clones? Diversity is good. Write your essay about how you took drama instead of AP basketweaving and learned more about shakespeare than you ever had in AP Lit. ;)</p>

<p>Yay, finally someone who agrees with me! Cowgirlatheart, I have had the same problem as you with friends criticizing my class choices because "colleges won't like that". For example, I had the option of continuing my math studies (past calculus, which was hard enough for me to grasp) or take an elective of my choice. So I opted to take a second language. My friends gave me lots of flack for not continuing in math. grr. why don't some people realize that not everything in life revolves around college admissions to me? Anyway, it's nice to see some people are still on my wavelength.</p>