The Very Top Publics vs. The Top Privates

Applying to College
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I hope this is the right sub-forum to start this debate on.

On some posts, I’ve seen currents of the debate about whether the absolute best public schools can compete with the top private schools. I’m talking about the competition between UCLA, Berkeley, UVA, UNC CH, Michagan, with private schools not at the very top, like Duke, Dartmouth, Northwestern, etc.

What do you say? In my experiences talking to and hanging out with people, there definitely seems to be prejudices both ways.

For instance, prep schools kids go to Boston College much more than they go to UCLA. Part of this is the fact that UCLA is on the west coast, but that doesn’t explain all of it.

If you hang out on this forum, you know what the prejudice in USNWR is, as well.

So, let’s have at it! I know you are chomping at the bit, Shy Boy!

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<p>lol, NU and University of Chicago, Dartmonth are obviously better than uva, u michigan, berkeley at liberal arts subjects, dartmonth, brown...have more reputation in U.S. as well</p>

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<p>"So, let's have at it! I know you are chomping at the bit, Shy Boy!"</p>

<p>Sorry, buddy! I'm retired. I dont want to get into useless debates like this any more because quite frankly arguing cant change anything. I know there are a few vocal people on CC who dont like public schools and thats fine. They are entitled to their own opinions. I dont think most of the world agrees with them though. Have fun fighting guys!</p>

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<p>Shy Boy - debates like this can change my opinion, and frequently do. Isn't that something? And I'm sure there are many lurkers like me who get a lot of useful information from posts like yours. Please reconsider.</p>

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<p>ThomYorke: I think you're underestimating the top publics, Berkeley, Michigan and Virginia - they have many programs which are ranked in the top 10 in Liberal Arts and in other areas. If you examine the number of top 10 departments for each university you listed, Berkeley tops the list.</p>

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<p>I am from Northern Virginia, and UVA is an exceptionally good public school. I think it can take ANY private school.</p>

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<p>See ericmeng, you dont need me. audioslave and annandale1 should be able to do fine here without my help.</p>

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<p>Ericmeng, someone needs to hit your knuckles with a ruler for starting this tread.</p>

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<p>I think that this is the most important debate regarding decisions made 'on the margin' in college admissions. How good are the very best publics? Thousands of kids need to know this, and they are not getting real answers.</p>

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<p>Public schools often have more financial resources, due to a lower number of admits and also more $ for research or from Alumi, etc.</p>

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<p>"For instance, prep schools kids go to Boston College much more than they go to UCLA. Part of this is the fact that UCLA is on the west coast, but that doesn't explain all of it."</p>

<p>and the other part is that they can afford BC, while public school kids are more inclined to go to UCLA because it is generally financially affordable for them. </p>

<p>okay that had nothing to do with the thread's arguments, but just wanted to add my input for that question.</p>

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<p>Eric, first off, I disagree that this is the most important argument you can have because the term "best" is subjective. What's best for you might be worse for me and vice versa. What these theads do is start horrible flame wars without ever changing anyone's mind. But if you still think its important than click on the back button and look on the screen, you'll find four or five of the same argument going on as I write this.</p>

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<p>Just because things are subjective does not mean that they should not be discussed. And I also dispute your claims of subjectivity. There are more or less objective claims of 'betterness.'</p>

<p>If you want to stay away from flame wars, you do so by being civil in your arguments, not by stifling all discussion. I have been in forums where abortion and the existence of God have successfully been debated without flaming. And these have been pretty large forums, too, one was 1,000 members, with a core of about 250 really active members.</p>

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<p>It all depends on the person. For me, I wanted to go to Dartmouth, even though Umichigan has a top 5 poly sci dept. But not for the prestige, I like the enviroment at Dartmouth so much more. </p>

<p>The way I see it, I'm getting a more prestigious degree (sorry guys, but in the midwest, Dartmouth and Brown doesn't mean jack) for about 5K a year...so I vote top publics.</p>

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<p>A lot of lay persons in the midwest also don't appreciate education as much as the northeast. Michigan is just another football school to some people here.</p>

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<p>Public schools have More resources? Is that a joke? Per capita, they have far less, far lower endowments. Private school kids head to private colleges because they have greater resources and smaller classes and their parents can afford to spend for them.</p>

<p>This is not to say that you can't get a great education at a public college. It is just that you'll work much harder for it, wait for classes, often take more than 4 years to graduate and deal with a lot of red tape.</p>

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<p>... and not go in debt 80,000 dollars which drove me to a public</p>

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<p>Looks like the majority of the 15 largest library resources are at the publics. Same for specialized expensive engineering and science labs. They also get the bulk of the US research funding which keeps the best profs working at the publics. </p>

<p>New Top 15 univ. libraries ranked </p>

<hr>

<p>Volumes in library Volumes added Current serials Total expenditures1 Permanent staff2 Rank3
Harvard U. 15,391,906 302,173 100,009 $100,892,145 1,137 1 1
Yale U. 11,389,504 280,572 66,867 $65,212,582 604 2 2
U. of Toronto 10,032,197 230,073 62,023 $47,556,426 539 3 4
U. of California at Berkeley 9,812,997 200,310 79,394 $53,263,903 426 4 5
U. of California at Los Angeles 7,988,925 168,335 78,171 $47,691,633 432 5 6
U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 10,191,895 178,221 89,444 $33,557,443 400 6 8
Columbia U. 8,650,258 162,166 65,650 $46,200,379 479 7 9
U. of Michigan 7,958,145 171,154 67,554 $46,737,671 475 8 7
Cornell U.4 7,365,268 171,803 72,788 $42,560,694 433 9 10
U. of Texas 8,482,207 174,190 48,096 $36,316,124 436 10 11
U. of Wisconsin 7,807,097 126,373 55,164 $39,251,812 402 11 16
Indiana U. 6,770,498 145,288 70,370 $32,340,522 362 12 15
U. of Washington 6,546,072 186,227 48,269 $34,780,704 351 13 12
Pennsylvania State U.4 4,975,339 98,771 58,459 $40,610,081 527 14 13
Princeton U. 6,373,184 154,045 44,634 $35,256,274 354 15 17</p>

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<p>I can absolutely cite nothing, but I did believe this when I read it.</p>

<p>The difference between the best student at Cal-Berkeley, Michigan-Ann Arbor, or Virginia and the best student at MIT, Harvard, and Duke is negligible. They are very much equal in terms of academic prowess.</p>

<p>Now, the difference between the worst student at those three publics and the worst student at those three privates is clear. The students at the private univerisities are better.</p>

<p>Note that I have picked six excellent schools. I am not saying that private = better, as some people do believe.</p>

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<p>Hmm...the quality of education depends very much on the school. I've heard some ugly things about Harvard, but I've heard great things about big flagship state schools like berkely and uva. Its all relative. </p>

<p>One note on the red tape: The U of Michigan is the most well run educational institution I've ever had to deal with. Far more organized than any of the schools I applied to. I think that b/c of its size, the University pays special attention to how its administration works. I've had to call UM for questions and what not, and I was taken aback with the timelyness and quality of the response.</p>

<p>And to the northeasterner who seems to think that we in the midwest are living like cavemen, I'd like you to know that we place a high premium on education. But we also know that a great education doesn't always come wrapped in an Ivy bonnet.</p>