We’ve had mixed messages from visiting music schools. Some say they are looking for the potential of the voice and others want you to have a lot of piano, sight reading skills, music theory etc. My S has an amazing voice with a ton of potential but we live in an area with very little music, no music theory, really poor choirs etc so he’s way behind some of the other singers.
At his first audition he totally blew the sight reading test but they just laughed and said they would teach him. They seemed to really love his voice and he was accepted with a scholarship. Now he has a couple of much more competitive music schools to audition for. What do you guys think as far as how much the potential of his voice will be weighed against his musical training. He will flub a music theory test. He’s been self teaching but he is obviously way behind.
What should he expect at these auditions? Are they going to be confused because he has less musical training? Or are they more concerned with what he can do? How will sight reading and music theory impact an acceptance into these programs?
And then… if he gets into a competitive, more intensive music theory program, should he go or will he be miserable and behind the whole time. As a vocal performance with potential, should he strive for a top program or take it down a notch for undergrad and go to a smaller program. What if his voice doesn’t develop that much. Or what if it really develops and he could potentially have a great singing career? As an aside, he is very strong academically, full Diploma IB, top of this class, top test scores. The kid knows how to work.
And as far as what he wants to do… if he knew he could make a go as a professional singer, he’d be all about it. He’s nervous that he may come up a little short so he wants to study other things at college too.
At Berklee (my son is in his first semester there), my impression is that a lot of students with a lot of raw talent but very little training in theory, sight-reading, etc., are admitted, and then placed in the appropriate levels of Ear-training, sight-reading, etc., classes to learn what they need to learn. Admitted students take a proficiency test at the beginning of the first semester to determine what classes they need to take.
So it seems that they are primarily interested in potential. However, I also get the impression that some of these students are kind of taken aback at the rigor of some of those classes, and what they need to work very hard to learn. I gather Berklee loses some talented people because they’re just not prepared for that work. That’s my impression, based on conversations with my son, anyway. I can’t speak to what’s expected at other schools. But I wish you and your son all the best in the journey!
@DVmom18, your kid sounds just like my S18. Came to classical VP late. Only started voice lessons junior year of HS and little choir background. No music theory or piano until he started teaching himself and getting lessons just before senior yr of HS. Top grades and test scores. He was accepted to 5 of 7 VP audition programs to which he applied, with lots of scholarships. We had the sense that potential was more important to the majority of the schools. The two which did not accept him could have been because of inadequate music theory skills, but also could have been a flat audition. Who knows?
He is now at a very competitive and intense music school (FSU). He tested for music theory and was placed in the regular class. He had to work at it and he got an A. For this semester, he’s been placed in the honors section of Music Theory II, and he’s a bit worried about it. He’s heard its the hardest theory class at FSU. But I am sure he will be fine.
If your child is academically gifted, I think he will be able to handle music theory at a smaller or larger program. It may be work, yes; but as you say he knows how to do that. Good luck!
I would not worry about it. Theory tests tend to be for placement, not admissions (or so we were told). VP candidates come in with a variety of theory training, so almost every program has a “start with the basics” theory track. Many of them expressly say they don’t really care if you took AP Music Theory and don’t grant credit for it because they want to make sure everyone goes through their theory sequence. I sincerely doubt your son would have a hard time keeping up with theory in any VP program as long as he worked at it.
Now, if there were pitch inconsistencies in the audition, then the applicant bombs an aural skills test, that would likely be a different kettle of fish. But theory is just a matter of having covered the material. Not everyone has.
Best of luck to you son on his auditions.
Edited to add- I realize I’m not sure when you say he’s behind in theory how far behind exactly you mean. It would definitely be a good idea to make an effort to be literate in the most basic basics, like identifying key signatures, time signatures and note values etc, and that a complete unfamiliarity with that type stuff might give admissions officers pause. But he can learn about chord inversions and cadences later.
I think there is a a big difference between the importance of theory and the importance of sight singing.
I agree that theory is not a big deal. I don’t think any school that we know of uses results of theory tests in admission decisions. My kids friends who graduated last year all report that their lack of theory experience has not hurt them (other than make them work harder).
Sight singing is different. Both of my kids have reported that sight singing was critical at all of their VP auditions. At one school, the sight singing exam was (by the faculties’ own description) nearly impossible. They stated (at a post-audition meeting) that, while they did not expect kids to accurately sing the whole piece, they did expect them to give there best shot at singing the whole thing as accurately as they could. They said that this was a very important part of the decision. S (who is a great sight singer) was admitted to voice despite (according to his report) VERY strong competition. He believes that this is due to his sight singing. All of the schools he has auditioned for (so far) have given extensive sight reading exams (one gave 3 pieces and one had him sight read at the piano).
D also reports that many of her friends report that they did not get offers (after glowing responses to pre-screens) due to “blowing” the sight singing.
I am sure that the importance of sight singing varies tremendously from school to school. I am also sure that no school expects perfection at an audition. That being said, I would not underestimate the importance of sight singing and to do a bit of preparation if you can (there are some great sight singing programs and apps that really help).
@DVmom18 - I do know a couple of kids who got into good voice programs (I am not sure what “good” even means because this isn’t my D’s field but we’re in CA and the schools were USC, Chapman, AZ State, CSLB) who couldn’t sight sing and had limited music theory background. These are kids from academic schools with good voices. They did fine in their college programs but I know there were other desirable VPs they didn’t get into and possibly the lack of musicianship made a difference. Hope that helps? I really do think it depends on the school/program what they look for in talent vs. training. As an aside on music theory - my D is not in a VP but is taking music theory as a freshman singer (MT) - it is a struggle for her; most of her classmates came in knowing much more that she did. But she’s going to make it - I’m sure your S will as well.
Theory and sight-reading were not the deciding factors at my D’s VP auditions. It was stated as such…multiple times…and you got a taste of that attitude at one audition already. These skills were never checked by the panel in my D’s case. It was done separately…and in several cases noted only as placement. Take schools at their word. If they say it’s important…all he can do is his best and let it go.
Also your S may not be as “special” (lol) as you think. The truth is there are a lot of communities without access to high level music training. Music professors don’t live in a bubble. They know students come from different backgrounds. So if you have potential and good grades, I’m guessing that some schools/teachers figure you’ll work hard and catch up. The process may be more “holistic” than you realize (and not simply pass/fail). Again he just needs to present himself as he is.
At my D’s UG (IU), there were students that had never had music theory. I’m suspecting that they “bombed” their tests as they were put into “rudimentary” theory. It was a non-credit course since it was not considered college level work. They could not take Music Theory 1 until first semester of their sophomore year (since it was not offered 2nd semester). One of my D’s friends, who had a lead senior year, was on this track as she had not had theory prior to college. Sure…it’s a bummer to be “behind” but she had a good attitude about it.
If he is strong academically and musically, I think that he’ll be fine. ALL VP majors are “young”, particularly boys. Again his situation doesn’t seem out of the ordinary to me. And, you do have to separate the skills a bit for VP. A person who is great at theory doesn’t necessarily make a great performer. However a great performer does need to have strong theory skills (particularly sight singing). It’s probably easier to teach theory than stage presence imho.
If he does go to a highly selective program, he should be OK with being behind in theory (maybe - you could check the curriculum to see how the school does it - he may be in a regular class too). However that doesn’t mean he’ll be “behind” in all. If he gets an acceptance, as a performer, he’ll be within the “pack”…otherwise he would get a decline.
My suggestion is that he focus on his strength (vocal potential) doing the audition…and accept that his theory skills are still being developed. The right school will be OK with that.
Here is our experience as it pertains to classical musicians like your son. (I’ve been schooled that it’s quite different for jazz musicians.) Music schools are prepared to embrace and support talented classical VP students who come from many varied backgrounds. My daughter, a public high school kid, was correctly assigned to the “remedial” music theory and aural skills classes for first semester freshman year. Those kids just worked harder and got caught up by the start of second semester. (This was the process outlined by at least 2 top music schools.)
So the question is not exactly what level students are at when they audition, but, if they are “behind,” do the evaluators think they will be able to put the work in to get caught up on theory and aural skills? That’s where the student’s high school record in classes like math and science becomes important as a predictor of success.
My daughter, who sounds a lot like your son, just completed her fifth and final semester of theory - atonal music theory - and received an A. Many, many late nights. Many tears and panicked phone calls along the course of those 5 semesters. And she’s happy, happy, happy to be done. But she’s confident she’ll crush her grad school theory tests.
Music theory is pretty miserable for everyone, but your son will catch up if he puts the work in. No one knows how their voice will develop though, that’s kind of a leap of faith. Good luck!
Just a quick note on what @buoyant said about math and science performance as a predictor of ability to learn theory–my son did NOT do well in math or science in high school, but for some reason he seems to thrive on theory…go figure! In his case, I think it might just have something to do with his learning more easily when he sees “the point” in what he’s learning, and it means something to him. That was definitely not the case with, say, Chemistry (and it led to some pretty scary times when it came to grades)!
But everyone is different. I just hope that schools trying to determine who is likely to pick up theory, etc., are aware of that!
Hi @AsMother - I think evaluators want to make offers to kids who they feel will be successful tackling their school’s curriculum in general. I was simply suggesting what they might look for - in a high school vocalist’s academic background - to increase confidence in the potential student’s success.
You’re absolutely correct that students of all backgrounds can be very successful in theory, especially when they see “the point.” Many love it and get graduate degrees specifically in theory. Glad your son is thriving in his theory study and helping out his peers - that is awesome!