We posted at the same time. I agree that the topic isn’t for everyone. I was pushing back against the quote about how everyone should apply that way to all colleges. While it’s good advice, I don’t think applying undecided is an outright rejection or even something looked down on at a lot of schools. These schools just aren’t the ones talked about as much on this site.
@me29034 I think when to take ACT/SAT was confusing for me since I don’t remember the school advising my D to take one any earlier than spring Junior year. That seemed to be the right timing for my son who could barely get through Algebra 2 Sophomore year, but D was in far more advanced classes and would have been ready much earlier. I only signed her up for the 02/20 ACT when she mentioned how several students in her AP classes mentioned that they had taken it and she felt like she was behind. It was fortunate that she was able to test just before things with Covid-19 situation changed things and the ACT test that was planned for all juniors at her school was cancelled. She took another ACT in July with a one point increase composite. One ACT and one SAT were cancelled. At that point she was done. I do think the counselors should advise students/parents to consider testing for ACT/SAT earlier in Junior year or maybe even Sophomore if they are in advanced math and English.
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Stanford doesn’t admit by major. Nor does it have any barrier to change one’s major once admitted.
That may be, but it was a former Stanford admissions officer who was stating that being undecided was a harder sell to the admissions committee, and they really look for a specific passion. And my point was just that while this is good advice, it doesn’t necessarily apply to every school.
Or even to “top 20” schools.
If you are focused, know your major-- great! And your chances ARE probably better at schools with tiny admit rates. But at schools that admit 15%-20% of their applicants (on up) I wouldn’t sweat it. Your chances are fine being undecided, if the rest of your application is strong. Note my qualifier.
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Exactly! You said what I was trying to say in a much more succinct manner. Thank you! 
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“The closest analog to this for college would be new college graduates who find that their academic passions has few job and career opportunities, so they are forced to seek “generic BA/BS” jobs that may not have much specifically to do with their academic passions. Another analog would be those who failed to attain their reach goals (e.g. pre-meds who do not get into medical school) and must find something else to do.”
There are many students who’s dream was to go to medical school that ultimately still do something in the medical field. Whether it be going to DO school, dental school, or becoming a PA, or something else. The options these days are limited.
For others, these kids (and even adults) are no longer in the roles where they are expected to stay in a one job forever. That was our parents perhaps. They have so many choices. Many are still following their passion in the humanities, and then of course realize they can’t make a living and find they need to go on to do something else. And then you do have the ones who aren’t sure what they want to do so they still major in something like sociology, psych or communications. It is unfortunately not a cakewalk for everyone, but most kids do have some sort of idea of what they like or are good at, even if they don’t end up in that.
“Well, you know MIT’s blog thoughts. And, after those top 25 kids?”
from an assistant director of MIT admissions blog"
“I attended ISEF for the same reason I attend the [International Olympiad of Informatics], because there are many students there who would love to attend MIT and who are well-matched to our particular institutions”
An Harvey Mudd adcom was also at the ISEF, so if you’re a student that wants to attend MIT or Harvey Mudd or Cal Tech, you’ll do ISEFs and Olympiads.
@MichaelCShort I have been getting a great deal from your posts here. I have a question for you. I am on my second round in the college admissions process with two “life of the mind” type kids. My current HS senior has fairly specific ideas about a possible major. Yet for some (not all) of the schools on the list, there has not been an opportunity to convey that through the college-specific essay prompts. If the prompt is a fairly narrow sound bite like “tell us what diversity means to you in 150 words or less,” how is your child able to do a deep dive into the intricacies of mathematical modeling or whatever? I suppose that the prompts themselves are a hint - if your child is inspired to write on those topics, it might indicate that he or she is a good fit for the college or university’s priorities. And yet, it doesn’t always line up that neatly. Thoughts?
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To the original topic, I’ll add a post from today. A suggestion to a student to use the special circumstances section of the Common App to explain a first semester Senior year C grade, which the student said was because of “all that’s going on”.
Yikes, was that the explanation? Hopefully they clarified the explanation a little more descriptively because every kid has that same thing going on.
It’s rough for all seniors.
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Re testing for the ACT/SAT, I don’t think it matters so much as far as taking an English course as long as a kid knows proper grammar and has decent reading comprehension, however, agree with you that once a kid has taken a certain level of math then they are probably ready to take the test.
My daughters have friends who could never attain higher than 23 on the Math ACT and it didn’t matter when they took the test because they never had the high enough math courses. They could’ve taken it 10x and same score. My kids however all took it in September of Junior year as we found that prepping for it in the summer before was the least stressful since they were not in school at the time involved in heavy courses or worrying about outside school activities, so stress level was low. My son was done then and my daughters took it one more time in December of their Junior year, but in both cases the Sept score was the highest.
My son would’ve taken a Subject SAT this past June after Junior year but that was cancelled and then he got bumped out of it in October when they needed seats for the SAT. Ultimately it didn’t matter since most schools don’t care about them or don’t want Subject tests any longer pre-covid but I can only imagine the stress on parents trying to scramble fo getting a test in.
My philosophy, get it done as soon as possible in Junior year and you can always retake it later.
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Not really bad advice, but one of the worst mistakes I see is among parents who applied to college 35 years ago thinking that their kids’ high GPA and high SAT/ACT score is a ticket to the Ivy League. It’s a whole different ballgame these days.
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On these forums, there are also posts claiming that high GPA, high SAT/ACT score, and either legacy or URM is an automatic ticket to the Ivy League (advantage yes, automatic no).
Regarding parents’ experiences with their own college and how that does not translate well today, not only are many highly desired colleges much more selective now, but many colleges are much more expensive now. The parents who worked their way through residential college who expect their kids to do so now may be in for a shock if they do the numbers.
College choice (or going to college at all) is mostly dependent on parental financial circumstances and choices; the student’s own achievement and merit matter only within the parent-based financial constraints. (The forum demographic may be unusual in that the parents usually want to, and usually are able to, give their kids more financially possible college choices than commuting from home to the local community college or in-state public university.)
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In U.S. News Rice and Harvard tie by “selectivity rank,” at #5 in their category.
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@merci81 This is kind of what I was alluding to when I replied to that original comment (about Rice doing cartwheels to get an applicant denied by Harvard). I understood the general point, but Rice wasn’t the best example to use.
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Even when offered access with respect to admission, many students may find it perfectly natural to prefer another college to Harvard, as in this retrospective example from the Boston Globe:
Agreed. My little brother earned an Ivy undergrad degree, an MBA from Stanford and his company just went public in the last few months. We were laughing the other day because he’d never be able to get into his alma mater now. It’s fairly ridiculous.
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@GKUnion So true. Plus I feel like we were allowed to have a lot more fun in high school and still go to a good college back in the day. Now it’s like ‘how dare you have free time instead of leading and volunteering and enriching every spare minute’.
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Lol, my three roommates and I always say the same thing. The admissions rate was 20-25%, tuition room and board under $10k when we started at our HYPS. The 4 of us ended up at Harvard and Berkeley law and Stanford and Mich BSchool while we had our fair share of cheap beer and punch our 4 years. I feel for the kids now. It is a grind to get in and to place into a top grad/professional school program or job. I was a grill cook, waited tables and bartended my summers, and played a lot of golf. I decided on law school summer before senior year and just bought a commercial LSAT prep book to study. S did an intensive language course in the home country summer freshmen year, a grueling internship consulting summer of sophomore year and another in IB summer of junior year.
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