Omg, my son today just told me about the Stanford supplements. That must weed out quite a few applicants. He did say many of the essays are the same as other schools so easy to change around some things, but it gave me a headache just listening to him. 
No wonder as an AO you never wanted to see anything extra. I’m sure you got to know quite a bit about each applicant by the time you were done reading their application.
Uhh please show me in my post where I ever said students who study sociology or anthropology are somehow doomed to never find a job outside of those fields? I never said that and would appreciate not having words put in my mouth. I also never said they were useless fields.
@GKUnion Ha, come on. Argue in good faith. Here’s what you said:
“This topic isn’t exactly for the student that wants to study Criminal Justice at a local state school with an admission rate of 70%+”
So your the one who’s taken the position my advice isn’t for students with a certain pedigree. I’ve taken the opposite position: My advice is good for everyone applying to any college.
I think we’d both agree as you move from 4% to 70% you have less students seeking college advice on a site like this. But this isn’t a line of inquiry worth pursuing; happy to discuss with you in PM. And @Lindagaf maybe read for more context before agreeing I’m staking out some pedigree-only position.
@Creekland I think you’ve got my demographics wrong. My folks are working class people from the Bronx and Yonkers. Dad didn’t go to college; Mom put herself through night school while working. I just happened to work at Stanford. So I draw on that experience.
As I said above, I have no attachment to Stanford or any elite schools. There are many excellent schools and many good paths besides college. (I question the value of college as-is, and think our universities and our whole education system needs a massive overhaul.) But for the purposes of this site, I’m trying to offer some pointers to help students who are applying to colleges–especially the hardest ones like the one I worked at.
That’s a wrap for me on this thread. It’s gotten too long and folks are jumping on sound bites. If students reading have practical questions on improving apps., I’m going to be setting up shop in the Student Lounge next week to offer some tips.
–MCS
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I agree with your thought about most on CC taking at least one shot at a top 20 school. In my initial CC post, I was looking for opinions because my oldest was not applying to any top 25 schools and some family and friends were upset about a minority (African-American female) with a very good resume not taking a “shot” (her best friend with a very similar HS resume currently attends a top 3 USNWR National University). My younger child (African-American male) also had elite-level “stats” and attended a very competitive STEM summer program, but ended up choosing a similar path (Applied to only 2 top 50 USNWR National Universities among his options). But since my family’s demographic is relatively unique on CC, it does not surprise me that my children’s college admissions journeys were much different from the normal CC poster.
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@Lindagaf @GKUnion The Pythia of CC that channel prophecies from past AOs and current private college consultants would awaken from their dreamlike trance if we all just stopped falling for the marketing tactics (SUPREME style of hype branding) that elite colleges engage in. That is not going to happen any time soon. I appreciate CC, however, and worry about so many more kids now besides my own. I also love the diversity of opinion and high level of discourse. My eldest is applying to college and even though I am still so lost in trying to advise her I feel a little less so in this community.
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Of course, there are LACs that do not offer geology as well.
Also, which LACs would offer strong geology departments with offerings comparable to those of this moderately selective public university?
Re: not wanting to go to colleges where CS is in the liberal arts division…
If he does not want general education requirements in humanities, social studies, and foreign language, he may want to look them up at Stanford before deciding if Stanford matches his preferences on that.
People are driven by their passions. Understandably, “elite” colleges (and those aspire to be “elite”) want driven people.
While people who figure out their passions early in life do have some advantage (in an earlier start), not all students become passionate about things early in their lives. Some acquire their passions later in life. Their passions can also (and likely) evolve, incrementally or dramatically, over time. That’s okay. Take a look at this chart of top-10 schools which produce the most Nobel Prize winners per 10k undergraduate students:
1 École Normale Supérieure (13.5)
2 California Institute of Technology (6.7)
3 Harvard University (3.2)
4 Swarthmore College (2.7)
5 Cambridge Universiy (2.5)
6 École Polytechnique (2.5)
7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (2.5)
8 Columbia University (2.1)
9 Amherst College (1.9)
10 University of Chicago (1.7)
The majority on the list are schools where students have figured out their passions early, but there’re also 2 LACs (Swarthmore and Amherst) on the list.
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Thanks so much! Pretty typical of most GenEd requirements for Engineering programs with the exception of the Foreign Language which is essentially Pass/Fail. I forgot they’re on quarter system which makes everything much faster paced and you either love it or hate it. That system is definitely not for everyone. It’s great if you have a lousy professor, but bad if you aren’t one who can handle most of your grade just being one midterm and a final.
I did also check out their AP list, bummed to see they don’t take APush or Ap Econ. Not surprised they don’t take AP Stats.
This is good info, thanks. Hopefully he gets into ED and the point is moot, otherwise he will have to decide where he casts his net for the two weeks he has before all these applications for RD are due.
This is an interesting question (although an in-depth reply might be more appropriate for another thread), and Mines (often considered a specialty school) offers a very sound array of courses. In brief, both Mines and solid (for geosciences) LACs offer similar foundational courses. Beyond these foundational courses apparent differences in course availability may represent naming differences. For example, Mines offers aqueous geochemistry (with chemistry as a prerequisite), which might be approached elsewhere through a combination of a hydrogeology course (from a geosciences department) and foundational or advanced chemistry courses (through a chemistry department). For examples of LACs strong in geology and its supporting fields, see Colgate, Hamilton, Amherst, Colorado College, Carleton.
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Those who choose trades aren’t our college bound students either. That’s merely where exchange students (and myself) think other countries have figured out a better system than we have.
Out of our college bound students, maybe 3 per year - if that - apply to a Top 50 program. We graduate 300+ per year.
Cc is not the site for them I suspect. When I talk with kids it’s rare that they’ve even heard of the site or visited it - though it shows up on our guidance page for sources (or at least it did at one point when I looked). I found the site back when I was helping my three find colleges that suited them. My kids were never interested in it themselves.
I should probably add that we had one student a few years back get accepted to Stanford and a bunch of other places. She chose to go to Wake Forest for free with perks instead and was extremely happy with her choice afterward (she’s graduated now).
We do have a few who go to Ivies - mainly Cornell and Penn.
That’s the sort of “typical” demographics and desires in the area I live in. To me, Cc seems a bit like another world.
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I congratulate anyone who’s actually able to follow this thread as it jumps all over. Lol.
Few top colleges purport to be solely academic experiences. Or that they’re looking solely for kids who are academic powerhouses, with interests predefined by December of senior year. The classic MIT blogs offer insight.
Any poster can claim to know x or have heard some amazing info or offer anecdotes. But when it comes to your own kids, aim for an open, rounded view. Learn as much as you can about a target from various resources. Try to understand the many elements that colleges can look at.
Of course, posters ask about non-elites on CC. And, of course, there are many ways to effectively present yourself in an app/supp. But in general, the higher you aim, the more benefit you could accrue from an informed and somewhat strategic approach. Don’t assume. Not based on what worked for someone else, in your one high school, on some blog, etc.
Nothing inherently wrong with seeing yourself as undecided. It’s just that the higher you aim, the more expectation you’ve considered your interests and directions, worked successfully toward those, and can claim that interest- for the purposes of the application.
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Somehow, it seems hard to see how a department with 5 total faculty in geology (like at Colgate and Hamilton) would be able to offer the breadth and depth of offerings that a department with 16 total faculty (like at SDSMT) would, although there is the possibility that a niche area absent in the larger department may be the focus of a faculty member in the smaller department.
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However, many of the students posting here are trying to compete in the “academic powerhouse lane” for admission, since they are not obviously qualified for other “lanes” like recruited athlete, relation to big donor or very important person, high achievement overcoming substantial disadvantage, or other standout non-academic characteristic or achievement of particular interest to the college.
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If your intent was to choose a specialty school for a point of comparison, and then count faculty (although I won’t presume this, exactly), then I’d rather you had phrased your initial question as rhetorical.
If you want, perhaps you can compare your favorite LAC geology departments with that of a moderately selective large public university such as:
http://catalog.wvu.edu/undergraduate/eberlycollegeofartsandsciences/geologyandgeography/#coursestext
Ucb. The fact many kids think they can compete primarily on academic might doesn’t change that a top holistic asks for more. And that means more than urm, legacy, etc. CC has had this conversation forever.
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Many studies that compare Nobel awards etc look at graduate degrees.
Take a look at Harvard’s professors CV and Princeton etc. majority attended outside of hypms and Ivy
For Undergrad.
It’s great to attend an Uber elite. It’s also just a made up definition. My definition of elite colleges in context of our world and humanity goes at least to 50 in the us alone For most in the world. College itself is elite.
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No one needs to go to an Ivy League or what the world views as “prestigious” school to be successfull.
Heck, just look at our President-Elect. He went to University of Delaware and Syracuse for law school. Neither are considered “elite”. It is what you do with your degree that counts.
Oh and for the kids that think even if they get into one of the “elite” schools, it’s a cake walk from there. It isn’t. Kids who had straight A’s their entire lives, most of them will now not and not be prepared for that first A- or god forbid B+. It’s quite ok. No one needs to or should be perfect. Sometimes I think those kids are best off being rejected from those schools because when they’re not, they’re sometimes set up for failure later on. No kid needs to be perfect. We should all just want our kids to be happy! For all you kids who read this thread, remember that. You do not have to be perfect.
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