<p>NMR, you're right, we certainly CAN be entertaining! :) I'm also quite a chatty person but this mom had me beat, hands down. I have often wondered what happened to her and her D.</p>
<p>I, too, love Anne of Green Gables. In fact, the stage version is one of the first plays my Ds attended, many years ago. Have you visited the Green Gables house in P.E.I.? Coincidentally, the Ds of two family friends played characters in the mini-series and the Road to Avonlea tv series. The first will be onstage here in Toronto in the coming season, along with her mom!, in the show 'night, Mother, and then, later in the year, in Top Girls. She's had a wonderful stage career. The other, who was in Road to Avonlea, has focussed more on film, and she made her debut as a director this year with a fabulous film (which she also adapted from a short story, and wrote) which has already won many awards and our fingers are crossed for the Golden Globes and Oscars! So, yes, Lucy Maud Montgomery's influence is important in our house, too. :)</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. A lesson that I have learned is that it's tough to be a parent and the drama coach. First, I've never acted, and though I've always liked theatre, I have seen little. However, I read alot, and can gain a decent sense of the script. And I think that I know what decent acting looks like.
Given that we could not find someone to help us; no drama person in the HS - just music teachers who put on musicals - and nobody from the local college (it's a long story as to why we could not use the acting prof. from the local college - my employer), the role fell on us. It's not easy; tense at times; difficult to say,"but that phrasing/nonverbal su---", etc. If we did this over again, I would find someone in Philly or Baltimore and commit to the long drive once per week. Nevertheless, if he pulls off the Naomi Wallace piece (Trestle from Pope Lick Creek - the scene with Gin) without any help, that in and of itself should look impressive. On the other hand, if we've misinterpreted this very nonlinear and intentionally ambiguous and ethereal text, then we will pay the price.</p>
<p>alwaysamom, no, unfortunately I have never visited PEI, though I have always had it on my personal "bucket list." ;) But I have loved Anne since my fourth grade teacher handed me a copy of "Anne of Green Gables" and whispered "I think you will like this book a great deal." I did. In fact, I fess up to having reread it at least a dozen times, including when I was temporarily laid up (by horrible morning, noon and night sickness) during the first three months of pregnancy with the kid who is now auditioning for MT programs. (It amazes me how well those books stand the test of time. The Anne books and "The Witch of Blackbird Pond" are still among my favorite books.:)) And I have seen the mini-series. It was great fun to see the story brought to life. I am happy to report that my MT D also loved the books, though my second daughter (a budding ballerina) didn't really take to them, despite the fact that she, like Anne, was adopted into our family. Oh, well .....:(</p>
<p>i love love love anne of green gables. first discovered it in maybe third grade and was astonished how much anne's best friend WAS me-- a tall "raven-haired" girl named diana. crazy.</p>
<p>We were at CCM for auditions yesterday. The subject of cuts came up, of course, during the student panel discussion. The sophomore MT girl student said that out of the 21 original MT students in her class, 14 are left, but only 1 of those was a result of a cut. The others left for thier own reasons. They also said that the cuts are never a surprise and that students are cut because the don't attend class or take the program as seriously as they need to. It did make me feel a bit better about CCM's program in that regard. 1 audition down, 10 to go!!</p>
<p>NMR, yes, you must include a visit to PEI on your bucket list! (I am looking forward to seeing that movie!)</p>
<p>UAmom, I have to admit that the numbers you quoted for CCM absolutely astound me! One and a half years into a four year program and a third of the entering class is already gone?! All I can say is, wow.</p>
<p>My D said that there were only 6 still remaining in the Junior acting class at CCM. It would be interesting to find out what percentage of freshmen students actually do graduate in MT or Acting at the top schools. I'm sure that has been discussed on CC before, I'm just not sure where.</p>
<p>UAmom, alwaysmom: this is an interesting discussion. I am not sure that this is the case at all 'top' schools. My S said that at BU last summer, they emphasized their high retention rate. S auditioned with Syracuse yesterday, and they seemed to go out of their way to explain their student-oriented temperment.
I always stick my neck out on CC, only to have it cut-off (hey, I was the middle child), but the programs that I am aware of that have retention issues (beyond cutting) are schools that are more conservatory-like (Purchase, DePaul;, CCM, NCSA). Assuming this second-hand information is reliable, it supports my hunch that some theatre school/department have not assimulated the ethos of the university/college. Remember, theatre is a relatively new major/degree in the university (typically less than 50 years). Because many faculty in theatre have not pursued a PhD, they have never benn 'professionalized' into the academy. When you are a PhD student, you are necessarily immersed in the history, culture, and organizational politics of the academy. A Prof's identity is formed by their specialization, but also by the university, as an idea and an institution whose history reaches across millennia (university faculty were constituted as a guild distinct from the actor's guild). The MFA is a terminal degree for practictitioners (yes, some programs are geared toward directing their graduates toward higher education), but it does not involve the same indoctrination/professionalization as obtained by the person who gets their PhD. (By the way, my LAC will only grant tenure to an MFA that has gone on to get their PHD, and it looks like more and more theatre programs are adding a PhD degree).
I say all of this because I suspect that at some conservatory-like programs the disposition of faculty/administrators toward BFA students differs from that of programs that are (1) more integrated with the ethos of the university/higher education and (2) have more PhDs on staff.
An analogy. I teach in business departments. I could not imagine how bad it would be if successful MBAs staffed the Department. On paper, it may seem like a good idea, but it would not be good for the students. I have seen examples of the disaster; mean-spirited, non-empathetic, workaholic, authoritative, and, most importantly, detached from the deeper values of higher education. My wife is a nursing professor. Nursing has come to realize that, though MSNs make good Clinical Instructors, the PhD typically has the more appropriate disposition, style, temperment, etc. to manage the everyday life of teenagers.
Mine is a convoluted argument, but the differences between BFA programs are likely due somewhat to the history of the relationship between the university and the theatre/drama program. And my fear is that their is a sort of sadism (sorry for the hyperbole) that seeps into programs that identify more with the 'real world' - a low success/failure ratio - and that they repress or do not comprehend the mission/ethos of higher education. Even medical schools have stopped abusing residents (long, long hours). Nursing programs have done the same. Sure, their are programs out their that have horrendous retention rates, much worse than BFA programs (i.e., Pharmacy, some Engineering specializations, more recently, Nursing), but I can understand the rationale for the rigor here. But theatre is not nursing or engineerinng. I mean, nothing that a theatre person does causes bridges to collapse or medical malpractice/negligence.</p>
<p>My son auditioned at CCM for drama over the weekend. He did not come away feeling like this was a "cut" program. It was emphasized that occasionally students leave for personal reasons, and they are dismissed ONLY if they do not do the work--do not come to class, do not come prepared, and so forth. However, the observation that only 6 drama students remain in the Junior class from a class of about 20 is a concern, if it is true.</p>
<p>First, let me say that at all BFA programs, some kids do leave. I'm including all programs now, not just ones with cuts. Students leave any college for a myriad of reasons. But just talking now of BFA programs, many find it is not right for them once they are immersed in it. After all, a BFA degree program is a commitment from the start, before you have really done any of it at college (unlike other majors or BA programs where you do not commit as a freshman). It also is a very set program with many long hours and intense and not like "regular college" would be in a BA program. For some, once they do this, they realize this is not the kind of program they wish to be in. Some leave once they have experienced it and the fit is not right. Some leave the field as well. A BFA really requires a deep passion and commitment level given the intensity of the program and the hours involved. So, this realization sets in for some kids. Then, there are some who simply can't hack it and are in over their heads with the requirements and intensity. Some who leave are very talented and do well but just don't like it, but there are some who cannot handle it. Both reasons exist. So, there is some attrition at programs no matter what. And there are some kids who get cast and leave school too. </p>
<p>Then there are programs with cuts. CCM seems to be downplaying their cuts in their PR lately but they truly do have evaluations with cuts and there is a "climate" that exists when a program does this, as there is a "competition" and "survival of the fittest" atmosphere. That is different than in a program that is nurturing and wants all their students to be retained (unless of course they are failing, not attending classes). A program whose goal is to graduate everyone, no matter how talented is going to have a different aura than a program that plans to cut some students based on certain criteria. CCM is known to cut students and they weigh the talent level as to who they think will "make it" and want to only present students in their showcase of a certain level. </p>
<p>While not everyone who left CCM was cut, and some left of their own accord, some may have left due to the atmosphere at the school, whereas it is possible they would have stayed in a program with a different atmosphere that aims to retain students, etc. I know several very talented students who chose to leave CCM. They were not failing and had the option to stay. Some were truly exceling. But the school is not for all people. So, between those who are truly cut, and then those who leave of their own accord, the class does dwindle. CCM is a great school with a great reputation, particularly for MT, and its graduates often do well....that is, if one can survive the four years there (and I am not just refering to surviving the cuts).</p>
<p>Soozievt or anyone with info: Do you know anything about the "atmosphere" in the CCM DRAMA program? It seems as though it is separate from the MT program. (It is hard for me to gather info specific to drama/acting on CC, as most posts are about MT. I read the MT threads as there is very little info at all related to acting BFAs on the ARTS threads.)</p>
<p>Letsfigureitout....
CCM is an excellent school and so I want to reiterate that. I know less kids in CCM Drama than CCM MT. I know one who recently graduated from CCM DRAMA and she said there certainly ARE cuts and kids WERE cut. I don't have first hand information with CCM as I don't attend and neither does my own kid. But programs with cuts have a certain atmosphere. It can breed competition. Nobody knows for sure if they are staying or not in the early years. It can breed an element of fear of even risk taking. If you know you are constantly being evaluated as to whether you get to stay, it may affect you compared to a program that wants to keep you no matter your talent. I imagine there are differences with the Drama vs. the MT programs at CCM. The heads of each program are different. The personalities and philosophy of faculty affect a program and so things naturally will differ depending on the people involved. They are small programs and so if you don't love the faculty or they don't love you, and same with the small peer group, it may be a difficult situation. I just think your son needs to talk to many IN the programs to get a sense of this and what they think about it. Talking to just one or two is not as beneficial as gleaning several people's perspectives. My statements are only partly to do with CCM but also about any cut program and the atmosphere that may result, as compared to a more nurturing atmosphere where it is seen as an education and they plan to see you through that education and not just determine who they think will make it in theater, etc.</p>
<p>As you may know, I almost never comment on other schools. But I do need to tell you that we have been doing our senior showcase for the last seven years with the Drama program at CCM, and I've spent many hours with Richard Hess, the director of that program. While he and I have not had a specific conversation about cuts, I can tell you that he is a good teacher and a good man, that his students and former students respect him deeply, and that he quite consciously runs the Drama program differently than his colleague in Musical Theatre. </p>
<p>I agree with Doctorjohn that the Drama and MT programs are run differently at CCM and are headed by different faculty and so the climate of each program will naturally differ. I have also heard that Richard Hess is a great acting teacher and respected by students.</p>
<p>Thank you doctorjohn, for jumping into this conversation when you didn't have to, to comment on another acting program. Your info is consistent with what we have determined so far, and we can be a little less anxious knowing your observations.</p>
<p>And, soozievt: As always, your perspective gives us all something to think about! I appreciate the time you spend on this forum.</p>
<p>Can anyone comment in the reputation of CCM's drama dept/graduates? Regardless of how one feels about the cut program, CCM's MT program is <em>always</em> mentioned as one of the top programs in the country. But one hears much less about the acting/drama program there. It seems that most things that I have heard here and elsewhere about the acting program are positive (such as how the students like the program), but how strong is that program, really? Does it bask (as it were!) in the reflected glory from the MT program, or is it really strong in its own right? Forgive me if this is a blunt question! :) (I know only that CCM is a conservatory of <em>music</em>, so the reputation of its musical theater graduates makes sense.)</p>
<p>I don't know about CCM's atmosphere, but from talking to my son, his friends, and also reading posts from other Depaul students on this site, they really do not feel the cut system there makes for a more competitive atmosphere. I say "more" because of course any situation, whether professional or academic, that has as part of its process auditions, etc., is going to be competitive. As I have never attended Depaul or acted one second in my life (which all should be grateful for!), I can't comment first hand - but going by what my son and his fellow students and other kids on this forum have said, I think even with a cut Depaul is nuturing and the kids all are so close knit that they root for each other and there is no back stabbing or other undesirable behavior. Naturally they want to succeed and not be cut, but not at the expense of their friends - and all of us know how quickly those friendships are formed and how deeply they run when they are spending 24/7 with people who share their same interests, goals and dreams.</p>
<p>channelsurferdud. I'm at the end of sick leave, alone most of the day and bored to death, so I get long winded. I've had it with channel surfing and the Pennsylvania primary is not until the end of April, so I can't even get into political fighting at this point. Writing here serves two purposes. I get really good information from this community to help my son through this process, and it's a way for me to rehabilitate my thought process. I also like to pontificate; an occupational hazard.</p>
<p>channelsurferdad, why hot think of the people on this board as garrulous and friendly and full of info, rather than "long winded" ? :)
As for me, I am very grateful for the wonderful community provided by this board; it's a very good and valuable source of information for many of us and what's more, some of us have actually made friends because of it! :)</p>