Theater/Drama Colleges "Part 9"

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
121

<p>Valuedade</p>

<p>I am not sure why you would enter a concern based on choices you made and I supported that your concerns may be valid and you are taking me on for clarifying why I think you may be right to be concerned. Sounds like you just wanted people to tell you it’s all going to be okay.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I would submit that there is very little correlation between acting success and undergraduate attendance at conservatories.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That simply not correct in straight stage theater. If it was true why would you air your personal concern?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I spoke several times with the former dean of the Yale drama dept. He told me that while he was there, the MFA program disfavored applicants with undergraduate degrees in theater, and preferred applicants with other educational and life experiences.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While their program is exceptional and I know several people who have graduated the reason is simple. They have little more to teach those students about acting. When you come out of a top conservatory either you have it or you don’t. The students who “need” a masters don’t normally “need” the additional training. They may need the time to mature and grow into who they will be….</p>

<p>Gc03;</p>

<p>You’re a bright articulate student and I enjoy reading what you have to say. I would differentiate your post like this. There is no question that life’s experiences are very very valuable for actors to draw upon to have basis to build upon for their craft. We have been advised of that by several successful actors. It’s a topic we have discussed in the past week. Yet, after four years of math, science, English, etc etc another couple of years of that is not likely going to add “material” for an actor to draw upon.</p>

122

<p>
[quote]
He told me that while he was there, the MFA program disfavored applicants with undergraduate degrees in theater, and preferred applicants with other educational and life experiences.

[/quote]
That might have once been the case, but it’s apparently not anymore. If you read back over the thread, you’ll see that some BA programs have been mentioned that have grads at Yale Drama. I think somebody also said that BFAs from Evansville go there and most of the other top MFAs. It would, however, make sense that they wouldn’t want conservatory grads because they’re already fully trained – at least in theory. There were also some quotes given from the heads of acting at some MFA programs that said they didn’t care what the undergraduate degree was in. Actually, Kellster gave me some when I was stuggling with whether or not I was going to transfer to conservatory or finish up a BA for free in three years and audition for MFAs. Here is a link. I understand that some do prefer older students with “more life experience” and have seen in my own research that a lot of them require three recommendations from theatre professionals one has worked with outside of academia.</p>

<p>About this “life experience” thing … I think that’s just a matter of who you are and what you’ve been through – not so much chronological age. I know thirty year olds I wouldn't trust to take out the trash without getting lost and sixteen year olds with very old souls. School is just school no matter where you go or what you major in. It ain’t the “real world.” I do agree that the more you know, the more you have to draw from and some quality liberal arts courses certainly can’t hurt. I’ve personally found the study of history and anthropology valuable. </p>

<p>I think Wallyworld’s perspective comes from being affiliated with a major regional theatre where the overwhelming majority of the actors have MFAs or conservatory BFAs. I’ve also found this to be true in looking at the actor bios for a lot of the other major regional theatres. You see a few with bare BAs, but they are few and far between. It probably doesn’t matter so much for screen acting, but this thread is about theatre. :)</p>

123

<p>
[quote]
I know thirty year olds I wouldn't trust to take out the trash

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good point as usual Fishbowl.</p>

<p>A good friend adopted two kids from Zimbabwe. They spent two years subsiding on dirt, corn and water. They are nine years old and he claims they have the souls of 35 year olds.</p>

124

<p>WallyWorld:</p>

<p>Please don't misinterpret my intentions. They were neither as Freudian nor hostile as you suggest. I was simply puzzled by the fact that you purported to apply, essentially, a form of statistical "logical analysis" to a matter you described as "an illogical exercise" when you were pointing out what you characterized as falacy of my "logical" approach. It seemed intellectually inconsistent to me, and I was trying to understand your thinking, or at least the body of data you relied upon.</p>

<p>In contrsast, I wrote to share my experience and my concerns with others in order to stimulate their thinking, and try to help them view the school choice dillema from more than one perspective. </p>

<p>I'm surprised that you turned so quickly to the ad hominem reaction. Perhaps critical thinking and the ability to defend one's conclusions intellectually are more important to success in life (if not acting) than you imagine.</p>

125

<h2>Our recent discussions prompted me to go back and review my communications with Tisch on the topic of the correlation between attendance at Tisch and employment as an actor. The response was quite witty. The question and answer are reproduced below:</h2>

<pre><code>Finally, I have noticed that Tisch has a separate placement office. As a concerned parent attempting to assess the value of a Tisch education, I would be interested in obtaining any statistics the placement office may collect regarding placement of those who complete the undergraduate program.
</code></pre>

<hr>

<p>Congratulations on your son's acceptance. I'd be happy to speak to your son about any questions he might have. I'll give him a call as soon as I'm finished writing this.
. . . .
Alas, because positions in the entertainment industry are so ephemeral, the career services office doesn't keep statistics on our graduates. I can assure you we have numerous grads working as film, theater and tv actors, directors, casting directors, fundraisers, designers, managers and other industry positions. We also graduate a fair number of lawyers, lots of teachers and professors, the occasional medical doctor as well as some very articulate, educated and charismatic waiters. </p>

<p>I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any more questions. You can reach me by phone at 212.998.1872.</p>

<p>Scott</p>

<hr>

<p>Scott Loane
Assistant to the Chair / Administrative Aide
Department of Drama, TSOA, NYU
212.998.1872</p>

126

<p>Valuedad</p>

<p>That’s a different contention. We began with you questioning your influence on your sons choice of a BFA ATP conservatory versus a BA and how that might influence his chances to work professionally. The subject of BFA vs BA has been written about at much length in this forum and at times brilliantly by industry professionals such as doctorjohn. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Alas, because positions in the entertainment industry are so ephemeral…….

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That’s the point exactly. If you took that to mean there was no greater chance of becoming an actor out of NYU than Peperdine that was not deemed Freudian or hostile, just wrong. I have been on both campuses and if we were talking about my education Peperdine would be my choice hands down, yet this is a very unique vocation. </p>

<p>As to your new contention;</p>

<p>
[quote]
I was simply puzzled by the fact that you purported to apply, essentially, a form of statistical "logical analysis" to a matter you described as "an illogical exercise" when you were pointing out what you characterized as falacy of my "logical" approach

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your right, I played with you a bit but your the one who began questioning the logic of your approach. The difference between us though is that you used logic at the front door, I am using logic to aid in achieving the end game. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm surprised that you turned so quickly to the ad hominem reaction. Perhaps critical thinking and the ability to defend one's conclusions intellectually are more important to success in life (if not acting) than you imagine.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That was a pretty petty shot don’t you think? Don’t you worry about the relationship between Wally and success, its his middle name.</p>

127

<p>With the cooler weather here today and it being the first day of school I want to shift gears and say something that I think needs said. When I first came to this forum I identified the threads that I thought would be useful and printed them. It printed out at about half a ream and took two weeks to digest. Between that introduction and the conversations since (including the heated ones) our family has learned a tremendous amount about this subject. </p>

<p>And, for us, the three contributors who have added the most value to this forum (not in order of importance) are Thesbohemian, Doctorjohn and Fishbowlfreshman. As you may recall it was about a year ago that Thesbohemian went from being prolific on CC to “gone” almost overnight as she went off to an excellent program to follow her dreams. My sources tell me that so to will Fishbowl depart us shortly to go to another excellent program and follow her dreams. </p>

<p>I hope forum members will join me in thanking her for her amazing contribution to this forum and wish her all the best. What we personally have enjoyed most about her posts are their clarity that came from knowledge and wisdom beyond her years. I know for a fact that as our daughter goes through the audition/application process this year that she will be a stronger more knowledgeable candidate due to the words of wisdom shared by Fishbowl. </p>

<p>Fishbowl, I don’t know when you leave, days I would imagine. Are there any final thoughts you would like to share, about the process, how to best utilize CC, what it has meant to you, etc?</p>

128

<p>I would love to second the last post-</p>

<p>Fishbowl has been amazing on this thread and I really hope she finds everything that she deserves at her new school!</p>

129

<p>Wally:</p>

<p>It's time to put aside sophmoric rhetorical devices and face facts. The facts are that there is simply no reliable evidence that attendance at an undergraduate conservatory correlates to success as an actor (particularly when one takes the time to question which is a cause and which is an effect). In your heart you know this is true, and that is why you continue your inflamatory debate with others, crying foul when they dare to disagree with you, all the time reserving for yourself the right to "play with" them. It makes one wonder exactly who it is you are trying to convince.</p>

<p>For the sake of your peace of mind, I am glad that you have resolved this issue with finality. Forgive me for upsetting your cozy self assurance.</p>

<p>Finally, I must thank you. The unintended consequence of this unanticipated dialog has been to reassure me that training young people to be good critical thinkers is infinitely more important than indulging youthful impulses "to be an actor because that is who she is" or focus on becoming a working actor as an "end game". For such a successful person, you have set your sights far too low.</p>

<p>This will be my last post, so do as you see fit.</p>

130

<p>Wallyworld and ckp,
Thanks. It won’t be long or I may already be gone. ;) Glad I could be of some help though it doesn’t seem like I’ve actually posted on this thread all that much. Final thoughts? Last cigarette? Hrmmmm … Just keep it going, keep it useful, and **KEEP IT CIVIL<img src="and%20don%C2%92t%20feed%20the%20trolls" alt="/b"> Oh, yeah … If you see anything good on the MT forum that should really be on this thread, it would be useful to link it here. I can’t believe all that great Juilliard info spent most of the year buried in the MT archives. </p>

<p>And now for some words from Doctorjohn from earlier in the thread that I found inspiring and holds some relevance here …
[quote]
Time was, as the parents on this thread remember, when Accounting majors and MBAs could write their own tickets. It's just not true any longer. They have to compete for jobs just like actors have always had to. (There's a certain sadistic satisfaction in that.) And you're absolutely right about the kinds of skills you've already gained by studying theatre. A business major may know how to read a spreadsheet, but does he know how to read the person sitting across the table? Has he been trained in empathy? Does he know what he wants? Does he know if what he wants is a good thing for everyone, or just for himself? Does he know himself? You cannot study acting and not learn these things, even if you don't become a great actor. And if you learn these things, there aren’t a lot of things you can’t do, with the possible exception of neurosurgery and nuclear physics. If there’s value in reading the great works of literature, isn’t there at least as much value in speaking them aloud, and bringing the characters to life? If there’s value in talking about politics in POLI 101, isn’t there at least as much value in enacting those situations in THR 151? Actors learn about literature and politics and psychology from the inside, from what it feels like to be living those scenes, and they learn it from some of the smartest people who ever lived, Euripides and Shakespeare and Chekhov and Brecht. If someone can make an argument for majoring in some other subject as a <better> way of learning how to live life, let them give it a try.

[/quote]
And another from Sophocles …
[quote]
A fool cannot be an actor, though an actor may act a fool's part

[/quote]
Best of luck to everyone and have a great year!</better></p>

131

<p>FB</p>

<p>Two great quotes and so true.
More than some help.
And what do you know about civil;)
I know you will be pressed for time but I think your input on breaks and summer around here would be very helpful to people</p>

132

<p>Hey everyone, this is officially my first post... So yeah, I figured I'd post some of the things that I've come to realize through my experiences in theater, as well as my college search.</p>

<p>Ever since my elementary school years I have had this desire to be an actor but I never seriously began to act upon it until my sophomore year of highschool (I am currently starting my senior year). It was at that time that I began to devote a large amount of my time and energy to theater; even at the expense of competitive soccer which I have played my entire life. I began recieving leads in school productions, which isn't necessarily saying much, and than began to audition for community theaters as well as other productions outside of school. Everywhere I have gone I have been told that I am a talented actor and that I could have a future in acting. However, I have also been told by many of the same people that if I am interested at all in pursuing another career, than I should pursue that career instead of acting. </p>

<p>This leads me to my first point on this thread, and I'm sorry I've taken so long to get here. In my opinion, if acting is your passion, and you have been successful in your ventures, and at the same time you know that all you want to do is act, than go for it. I've placed in Shakespeare competitions, have been received very well by auditioners for many oppurtunities, and can say that I love to act. I know that I don't want to do anything else, so I refuse to go to school for something else when I know that I will always wonder what could have been.</p>

<p>My college list currently has around 20 schools on it. One of the most useful tools for me has been the telephone. I can not stress enough how important it is just to pick up the phone and request the oppurtunity to talk to the director of the drama program, a member of the faculty, a current student, or even an admissions counselor. Scheduling meetings with faculty and then visiting the schools have been extremely useful tactics. A regular open house or tour does not compare in the least to a meeting with the director of the drama program or a tour or open house of the drama facilities. After reading about the program on the school's website, I can recieve even more answers to my questions and get a real idea of what the school is like.</p>

<p>I hope that this ridiculously long post may be useful if someone comes across it that is uncertain of whether or not to pursue a degree in theater, or has not been aware that it is very easy to talk to the people that matter at these schools.</p>

<p>For everyone else, I hope this has given you an idea of who I am, and I look forward to learning all that I can from you all, as well as sharing whatever I can.</p>

133

<p>Gc03</p>

<p>It looks as though your program is part of two arts functions coming up and I wonder if you have (or anyone else) any knowledge of them and if so could elaborate on their format, value, etc.</p>

<p>The first is “The Performing and Visual Arts College Fairs” and the second one is the “West Bank Arts Quarter Open House” Thanks</p>

134

<p>My son and I attended this event in LA last year. Many of the schools on his evolving list were not represented, but a few were. He was a junior at the time and this event was good for him to be able to approach the table and engage the college rep. in conversation. It helped that I required him to formulate some questions in advance. He picked up college viewbooks and Drama department brochures or course progression documents. </p>

<p>Bottom line: a good opportunity for the soph/junior who doesn't have a firm list of schools made up, also a good starter event.</p>

<p>Caveat: I wouldn't drive more than a few hours to get to one.</p>

135

<p>I'm aware that you are permitted to do walk in auditions at the Unifieds for many of the schools that will be attending. I've also heard that submitting the application at this time would enable you to not have to pay the application fee. Is this true for many schools, and should I wait to submit applications until Unifieds if this is true? The New York Unified isn't until February after all.</p>

136

<p>Check out the two threads dealing with the Unifieds on the MT forum. You'll find lots of discussion on the issue.</p>

<p>Bottom line, schools will only take walk-in if they have an open appointment time (do you want to chance it?). The fees for applications aren't waived (nor audition fees if a school charges one), so the only benifit of not sending an application in for a scheduled audition is that you would be able to send it later after the walk-in audition.</p>

137

<p>I know this is not the correct section of the website, but anything posted in the graduate school section never recieves replies and often goes unnoticed. I just entered a liberal arts college and plan to get a BA in theatre. I know I am not going to get the training neccesary for me to survive in the business here so I plan to graduate early and audition for an MFA program, preferably in NYC. I have done a decent amount of research and have posted here before. Does anyone have any tips or useful information about MFA programs. Currently I am looking at Yale, NYU Tisch, and Actor's Studio at Pace University.</p>

138

<p>knoxcounty:</p>

<p>Yale and NYU have historically had outstanding MFA Actor-Training programs. I don't know Pace's program. As you think about graduate schools, you should use U/RTA, the University/Resident Theatre Association, as a resource. Go to <a href="http://www.urta.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.urta.com&lt;/a> for a list of its member schools, and information about its regional auditions. Far in the future for you, but not for others.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

139

<p>Thanks for the quick reply. I noticed that NYU and Yale were not members of the association, what does that mean? Also, would you recomend an MFA or an Equity internship?</p>

140

<p>It only means that NYU and Yale didn't see the need to join U/RTA in order to audition candidates. The other schools, most located far away from NYC, banded together to do collective auditions, knowing that prospective graduate students could not possibly travel to all of their campuses.</p>

<p>As for your second question, I would recommend an MFA. At some point in your life, you may tire of looking for work continually and want to teach. The MFA, like the Ph.D., is considered a "terminal" degree by colleges and universities and so qualifies you to teach at the college level, with a salary and benefits. Also, the quality of training you are likely to receive in a 3-year MFA program will generally exceed an Equity internship program.</p>