There is a big HOLE in FAFSA that needs to be closed!

Paying for College
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<p>I think some people misunderstand my remarks. Let me clarify a second time. I am NOT saying that grandparents are OBLIGATED to pay. I am ONLY saying that if they do, it should be fully disclosed...and not just in the second year of college.....it should be disclosed under "other sources" on the FAFSA in year one of college so the college can decide what to do. If a college decides by its OWN policy (for what reason I do not know) to ignore the fact a grandparent is providing significant financial aid and chooses to ignore it (why it shouldnt be considered the same as parental resources I dont know) is entirely up to them. Colleges offer merit aid and need based aid to ATTRACT top students. So be it. I just want it disclosed. Its when the grandparents aid (which has been going on for years in private school I might add) is HIDDEN and NOT disclosed and the parents look a lot more "needy" on paper than they really are....it ****es me off...not because they have generous grandparents contributing...but because its hidden from the college and FAFSA.</p>

<p>In short: FULL DISCLOSURE is what I am talking about. </p>

<p>I also know that parents confuse or twist need based aid and "scholarships." Much of the money (though not always) essentially comes from the same basket, so to speak. However, the prestige of a merit scholarship is noteworthy. In my D case we got a HUGE grant, plus a small scholarship....a mixed bag of goodies and some small student loans which we MADE our D accept because we want her to have a vested interest in her education and its expense. We refer to the package as "money" and dont delineate. To those we choose to give further disclosure we tell them...."mostly grant and some scholarship." But we dont say "full ride" or we dont say "all scholarship." That is wrong. We simply say, "they gave us a good financial package" or "a great deal of money.'</p>

<p>But I can assure you we were very, very honest on our FAFSA. Grandparents are all dead and left us some money. We have to disclose that because they are dead and that money is now in our hands. How is that different from the people whose grandparents are alive and they can hide it?</p>

<p>Again, if the college decides to ignore grandparents contribution that is their prerogative......IF its disclosed.</p>

22

<p>
[quote]
How is that different from the people whose grandparents are alive and they can hide it?

[/quote]

Because living grandparents can change their minds on a moment's notice. They may say in January, when FAFSA is due, "Oh, sure, we'll give you money for college." And then in September, when payment is due, say, "Sorry, we need it ourselves" or "Sorry, changed our minds." It's not an asset in any sense of the word until it in a parent's or student's control.</p>

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<p>A sudden illness (very forseeable for the elderly) and entry into a nursing home can quickly wipe out the fortune of grandparents. I've found that out myself recently, when there wasn't nearly as much left when my mom passed away as there was a few years back.</p>

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<p>Well, this is why I believe it is an obligation to disclose what has been given, though not necessarily what might be. And I think FAFSA clearly requires it, but of course everyone may decide to interpret that some other way....</p>

25

<p>The thing is, the FAFSA is about trying to project what money the family has for college, not to punish people who might have been given money by relatives in the past. As others have pointed out, grandparents get sick, they die, they decide to go on a cruise instead. Grandmother may have given you money every year when you were a child, but maybe you didn't choose Mt. Holyoke and she is so disappointed she won't be speaking to you for the next four years. Grandparents have no fiscal responsibility to you. </p>

<p>You're mentioning grandparents, but the bottom line is that students can get gifts or support from all kinds of sources, but the only sources that count for the FAFSA are (for the most part) the ones that are because of legal connection and obligation. </p>

<p>You know, I understand that you think it's unfair, that Johnny or Sally has a rich grandfather who has paid for Miss Porters or Andover, but the bottom line is that because there's no legally or socially mandated responsibility for that person to do that, it's just generosity.</p>

<p>PS: Garland, you mention that you think people aren't interpreting the FAFSA correctly. Well, you know, because I have an unusual family situation -- a noncustodial ex-husband who is estranged from the children, a significant other who pays the rent and some bills but has no legal relationship to the children and does not pay for their expenses -- I actually <em>asked</em>. I contacted the feds, I talked to schools, I have even addressed the issues with the court. And whether it was disclosure of financial info for custody proceedings, or financial aid filings, or working with colleges, they all pretty much said, "Thanks for mentioning it, but your boyfriend's income doesn't count, because he has no legal obligation to support your children. If he left tomorrow, he would not pay child support, would have no financial commitment recognized by the court/feds/institution. His income doesn't matter to us." </p>

<p>It might seem to you that grandparents are a special case because of their biological connection to the student, but legally, they're no different than mom's boyfriend. They give, or they don't, and not including their income is recognition of that.</p>

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<p>" Grandparents are all dead and left us some money. We have to disclose that because they are dead and that money is now in our hands. How is that different from the people whose grandparents are alive and they can hide it?"</p>

<p>Because when they leave it to you, it is, as you called it, <em>your</em> money. You have, you control it, you can do what you want with it. And if you have children, colleges expect you to spend some of it on them. </p>

<p>When grandparents are alive, their money belongs to <em>them</em> and is under their control. Their money. </p>

<p>Your next door neighbor might be a millionaire and may tell you every day that when your kid goes to college, he's going to pay for it. He may even have given you money in the past. But his money <em>belongs to him</em>, so no matter what he's said or done, you don't own that money, and I bet you'd think it silly to write on your FAFSA 'My neighbor is a millionaire and I'm hoping he will pay for my kid's college.'</p>

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<p>TrinSF--we're discussing two different questions. I agree that FA does not ask you to disclose sig other's assets, income, etc. Or grandparents, or any others. I never said it should or did.</p>

<p>What I did say is that the worksheet asks the student for other sources of funds given in support, from Worksheet B: "Money received, or paid on your behalf (e.g., bills), not reported elsewhere on this form". That seems pretty clear. So if your sig, or a grandparent, or anyone else gave the student money (for instance, for college), yes, that should be listed there.</p>

<p>And yes, situations can change. That you got it one year doesn't mean you will the next--but that's true for all sources of income. And the fact remains that aid is always based on the year before (unless special circumstances discussion results in an adjustment.)</p>

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<p>Yes, garland, you are correct, and I don't think anyone's disagreeing with you. Amounts already paid or received need to be disclosed. But friedokra is arguing that there should be some requirement that these assets be disclosed prospectively:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>To disclose it in year one (which of course is before the kid is even accepted to college) means disclosing the possibility that grandparents will pay, which could be based on promises or on previous behavior. But it's still prospective. And that's the point that I and TrinSF responded to.</p>

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<p>Chedva--I'm not sure everyone is arguing that while they don't need to disclose future money, they will disclose past/present money. Otherwise, it'd only be one year it might not come into play (first year.) I think it's being argued (though I could be wrong) that the gifts from grandparents etc do not ever need to be reported. But maybe I am misunderstanding.</p>

<p>As you explain your view, I agree we are on the same page.</p>

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<p>Garland, what i'm saying is that I actually called up the feds and <em>asked</em> if I needed to include rent and utilities paid by my SO on that line of the FAFSA, and I was told no.</p>

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<p>No, I undestand that. Did you ask them if the SO contributed to your kid's education, would kid need to include that on his/her Worksheet B, which is a different question?</p>

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<p>Well, of course, that would be a tricky question to answer. One could argue that, although the SO didn't contribute to the kid's education directly, any other gifts given to the child for whatever purpose should be reported. Or alternatively, that by providing room, board and other necessities to share with the mother and the child, the mother now has more funds available to pay for the kid's education, and therefore the SO's contributions should be counted.</p>

<p>For FAFSA purposes, why should a single parent without a live-in significant other who shares household expenses be treated the same as a single parent with one (assuming income and assets are equal)?</p>

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<p>Chevda: Ostensibly because the other person has no legal obligation of any kind ot the child, and because the feds cannot make assumptions about future ability to pay based on someone who has no legal connection to the parent or child. As someone once put it to me, "They figure if the boyfriend cared enough, you would be married." </p>

<p>Now, just to be clear that it's about legal obligation, in California the law has just recently changed such that if you are registered domestic partners, the rules apply as per married people. That's closed what you'd probably consider a loophole -- that same sex partners don't count. And actually, that's the comparable situation to mine: the federal government doesn't recognize gay unions, so they don't recognize them for federal aid purposes, as far as I understand. </p>

<p>What a lot of people don't understand is that you can't have it both ways. If you're going to define the only legal family unit as a married man and woman then all of the rest of us are going to fall through the cracks for some things.</p>

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<p>garland: No, because that would never happen; by agreement, my partner does not contribute to any expenses that are for the children alone. School lunches, school costs, doctor's visits, etc -- I pay for all of those. They're not his children, they're not his responsibility. We keep close accounting to make sure that's clear; we almost never use cash as a result. If this matters to you, perhaps you should call and ask?</p>

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<p>I don't see a point in responding to this thread, because I feel like my input doesn't really have anything to do with the original topic. I did want to say that I think the original conceit -- that the possibility of affluent grandparents surreptiously providing money to a college student -- does not in any way represent "a big hole" in the FAFSA system. There are all kinds of ways that people get around various parts of the financial aid system, but the idea that this one particular thing represents some vast untapped market of "cheaters" seems a little bit of a reach.</p>

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<p>At what point are monetary gifts from Grandparents reportable under the FAFSA question related to "money paid on your behalf"? My parents give DH and I 500 dollars every year as an anniversary gift--should this be reported?
What about the 100 dollar check they give to their grandson for his brithday?
It is all very confusing to me--I want to be honest but at what point is it none of FASFA's business what kind if gifts my parents give my family?</p>

<p>Would I have to report it if they gave me a 2000 dollar computer?</p>

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<p>To Trin......I hope your comment "the original conceit" was not meant as a slight. Because if it is, I have a problem with that.</p>

<p>Further, its not a bit of a reach, its a fact. Its a HUGE fact...because my D went to a private school and it was the NORM that the grandparents paid or made a substantial contribution towards the private school tuition (more than the 10k allowed by federal tax law and thus should have been taxed as a gift), and that it continued in college and was in at least 3 cases I know of ...NOT reported to FAFSA, misrepresenting the "need" of the kid for financial aid.</p>

<p>I have no problem with grandparents helping kids with tuition. I simply stated it should be disclosed to FAFSA and the college so they get the complete picture of the financial need of the student. Many colleges are not needs blind admissions and many who say they are needs blind are not really so blind afterall. And some admit kids who look disadvantaged when in fact they may not be.</p>

<p>I dont think that is a "conceit". I just have a penchant for telling the truth on federal forms.</p>

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<p>And for the record, my parents are both dead and did in fact leave a little nest egg for all their grandchildren's education and I disclosed EVERY DIME of that money to FAFSA and the colleges my D applied to, even though it could have easily been put in an account under a relative's name or some other manner of hiding it.</p>

<p>So why should the fact that my parents are dead and "contributing" to my children's education be required to be disclosed and someone whose parents are still alive be able to hide it so that their kid gets more financial aid than they would otherwise be entitled to?</p>

<p>Hmmm?</p>

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<p>mom of two sons:</p>

<p>You raise a very good point which I take as an honest question. I don't have an answer for that. I tell you what we did. My D got some money (about 3k) from relatives for her high school graduation. We reported it as money in my D's personal account. To me, its a point of being reasonable. Is 500 bucks a reasonable figure to report? I don't know. What I am talking about is grandparents who paid the ENTIRETY of someone's residual expenses after financial aid, the amount still owed the school after aid was awarded, and it amounts to some figure above 10,000.00. As for your concerns I don't honestly know. But its not what I was discussing. 500 bucks isnt something I would quibble about, frankly.....but that is up to FAFSA. I am talking about big bucks being paid for and on behalf of someone who has NOT reported the "other source" for tuition payments.</p>

40

<p>Parents are not legally required to pay college tuition either. FAFSA simply asks them to disclose their financial condition (assets and liabilities) and income to determine their "ability" to pay. I think the same should be asked of rich grandparents if they have also contributed for tuition in the past. Its not requiring them to pay its only looking at their ability to pay. The result is the same, if the parents and/or grandparents refuse to pay, FAFSA doesnt care. The kid then has to get student loans and/or declare themselves fully independent of their parents..which is done all the time.</p>

<p>But giving someone financial aid in the belief they have fully disclosed their sources of income and financial assets, and then letting grandpa pay the tab is tantamount to giving grandpa the financial aid.</p>

<p>You can disagree all you want. I think its wrong.</p>