‘They’re Not Fact-Checking’: How Lies on College Applications Can Slip Through the Net

Test scores have everything to do with intellect as well as preparation. There are smart wealthy kids who take the tests 4 times and never get over 1450 or whatever their goal may be.

Khan Academy and a myriad of other online resources are available to anyone that wants them. Our kids school offers a FREE online prep system with advisors as a service–the average SAT out of that school is 1430. The average SAT is 31. Lots of rich kids and lots of motivated kids.

So who tells disadvantaged kids at under-resourced hs about Khan? I doubt it’s the local librarian?
There are mentors and organizations supporting bright low SES hs kids whose families can’t guide them. But that’s a small slice. There are some great teachers at underperforming hs.

But you’re asking these kids to bootstrap it. My kids had us. They had a great GC (but who never, btw, mentioned Khan.)

Still, the best of the kids people tend to stereotype ARE making strides. And in relevant ways. Not the animal shelter.

People can lie and misrepresent themselves about almost any endeavor. While there may not be a specific “check” there are aspects of the admissions system that makes it less likely that misrepresentation impacts much. That isn’t to say it never does-but probably rarely. And that’s really the concern, right? If someone self identifies as X then usually there are other aspects of the application that supports that. When that isn’t present, the fact the person identified as X is likely to make far less difference. And by identifies, I include as a rower, or Hispanic, or kind person. That is less true about very large less competitive schools with admissions processes that are less holistic. Yet those variables also matter less in terms of acceptance to those schools. So yes, you hear stories but few about how a lie tipped the scale in admissions to competitive schools.

"At the age of 17, they are expected to have done something extraordinary or to have overcome some major hardship or have had a turning point in their lives (hello, common app essay prompts!). Is this really true of many or most kids this age? " No they are not unless their goal is to attend an extraordinarily difficult school to gain admissions to. And then wouldn’t you expect that? Students can gain entry to the lions share of colleges and universities in the US with ok grades and ok scores. Uncommon credentials are only needed for the very small percent of schools with uncommonly difficult admissions competition. So whose expectations are off? I’d say parents who convey to their kids that attending most of colleges and universities “isn’t good enough” are “off”. And they may be pressuring their kids to achieve at unrealistic levels, forcing their kids to conjure up some “extraordinary” fake persona.

Lastly, about being poor and admissions. The issue for a student from a financially distressed home is rarely about whether they can access SAT prep as readily as their wealthy peers. This isn’t true for all kids from families on the bottom of the income distribution but for many: The issue really is that they are disadvantaged in almost every way and almost none of it has to do with access to test prep. Such kids lack what most middle class kids simply take for granted-all those ways their family can/do help them if they run into difficulties-imagine if your parents couldn’t. For example, parents genuinely economically distressed can never get out from under the extreme anxiety that comes with knowing you can’t address your children’s basic needs-and even if you can right now, a little glitch will derail that. That distress makes them less available to their kids in tangible ways and in less tangible ways. Overstressed, tired, and without the ability to farm out problems by paying for solutions, most are not monitoring the date of their kids’ tests and grades on quizzes and tests. So while peers may have parents who rush in with tutors when a B looks unavoidable otherwise, other parents are under so much stress they have little to offer their kids even if they are tanking academically-the parents have more important things to do than keep track of when a semester starts and stops. And as many haven’t been educated themselves, they don’t know the importance of a certain test for their kid anyway. And this isn’t just junior year but divergent opportunities start before gestation. I’ve just mentioned the most superficial but relatable ones here. Given identical credentials on paper, there is a world of difference between the level of achievement when comparing a middle class kid to a kid from the very bottom of the income distribution-and it does not favor the middle class kid. If they look close on paper, they are probably worlds apart in terms of some very important dimensions-like potential if supported or grit and persistence, etc. To suggest that equal access to test prep equalizes opportunities is to miss the point entirely.

@loookingforward Google! Kids today don’t need to ask the local librarian, they have google. Though the local library is a good resource for computers and online access to many portals. Kids know about Khan. Like kids in my day knew there were SAT books ( even if they couldn’t afford to buy them) they had them at the local library even then. Even in poor inner cities. They also had books on various colleges ( now all online).

There have been some thoughtful and excellent posts on this thread. Thankfully there are always exceptions to sweeping generalizations, like the ones I asserted here. I stand by what I wrote concerning test scores however. The actual research on the subject backs it up.

I am heartened that there are more and more ways for that gap to be closed, and hope that increasingly more students will be able to easily find the information that would allow them to take advantage of all of the excellent free help. Not all students currently have that access, nor the digital tools to regularly utilize them.

I also, of course have my own personal opinions, formed both by my educational and life experiences, those of my DC, and the work I am currently involved with. Those you can take or leave :slight_smile:

Getting back to lying on apps, I have been perusing some ED results threads for top schools. What IBviolamom says about crazy ECs is true. When you see the awards, non-profits, positions like CEO/COO these accepted kids are listing, it is mind-boggling. And, it’s not that one kid was a COO, and that’s it, he was that plus won national awards, published papers, played a varsity sport, is an Olympiad winner, etc. There doesn’t seem to be enough hours in the day for all these things, plus school. The explanations some kids provide of their activities is also mind-blowing, like helping a city restructure an entire health system. Are you kidding? What 17 yr old kid can give that kind of advice. I laughed out loud reading some of the posts the other day. I’m not saying all these kids are lying, but there has to be a bit of exaggeration going on for some of them.

In my kids’ school, there starting tnonprofits is becoming commonplace. They have rich parents who hire a lawyer to get the documents filed. This is all in an attempt to snag the golden ticket. It’s become crazy. Long gone are the days when a very bright kid could play year-round sports, play an instrument, help his community in a “normal” way (like volunteer for an existing organization that needs help instead of creating an organization (which won’t be sustainable) to provide the same services), participate in other “regular” ECs because they like it, babysit or tutor for spending money, gets high As in a rigorous curriculum and top test scores and expect to get into a top university.

Just saying, it’s gotten crazy. Kids can’t be kids anymore. They have to be mini-adults with research positions in a lab! And, as an aside, our oldest was briefly interested in medicine/science. His father’s a doctor and called around to see if anyone would take him in a lab. The answer was no, as all of the researchers said it took many months to get even the undergrads up to a speed where they could be useful. So, unless the kid goes to one of those fancy science summer programs for thousands (like Cosmos, etc.), it’s unlikely most are truly helping the research progress.

If an applicant comes from a well-to-do family, what do you think are the easiest things s/he could do to gain admission to a super selective college? The answer is not the standardized tests (which, btw, should be made in such a way that they actually become discriminating again). It’s the ECs and the essays. AOs are always going to be a step behind to catch up with the latest gimmicks in college admission. High priced college consultants are always going to outsmart the poorly paid AOs. That’s the unfortunate truth.

@havenoidea Actually, it’s worse! My kid participate at something on a very high level ( above national) the ages of kids has been getting younger and younger. Many people now homeschool their kids so they can curate their experiences and get them those accolades you cite. Not to mention the reality vs. the reported stories. Parents often do the heavy lifting ( everything from hiring the attorney to filing out the grants, raising money and on and on). Then the kid over inflates the project and reports on it. I live in a small town so have often seen the “projects” and then seen the write up in the paper. OMG. Unbelievable lack of candor and honesty. These type of kids and their parents don’t care they are packaging themselves for the best schools.
It seems to me that the well heeled now realize there are too many applicants so they are not guaranteed a spot at any good school. So they create this resume for the kid. You mentioned a kid who couldn’t get into a lab. I know many kids whose parents exchange internships ( You hire my kid and I’ll hire yours). When parents are high level ( and you live in a wealthy enclave) some of these jobs kids get are amazing. And the kids have no experience or in many cases interests.
Do kids do all these things? Yes, some do. But don’t discount parental involvement.

From what I gathered after reading countless CC advices and hearing about acquaintances’ kids, it’s not just a sob story that grabs attention, it’s any kind of being interesting. Being a world champion in underwater basket weaving will qualify.

There’s a lot of irony on these threads that seems to stay beneath radar. Why are so many students rejecting the hundreds of wonderful colleges that don’t require your kids to do extraordinary things or be adults before their times? Am I missing something? Seems like students (or parents) are rejecting 90% of the schools and then complaining that the <10% that have “extraordinary” as a criteria shouldn’t. But isn’t the idea that all the students at those schools are “extraordinary” exactly why people feel the others are unacceptable to them? There are tons of great (academically strong) schools that accept students with B averages, average scores and which don’t require them to be professionals at age 12. So what is wrong with all those other colleges and universities? Or is the issue that there ought not to be any schools that accept primarily those students who are extraordinary in some way? Most of us are not extraordinary. It does not doom us. There is nothing wrong with us. What am I missing here? There are many really great schools that are not extraordinary but damn great. Isn’t that ok?

Since the thread has devolved into debate on AA, which the users responsible for the derail know is not allowed, I’m closing.