Things prospies should consider

Colleges and Universities A-Z Grinnell College
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<p>I just wanted to share my impressions of Grinnell after a semester. While much of what I will say is negative, I don't simply want to complain for the fun of it but to share information that students should know before choosing Grinnell.</p>

<p>I'll break it up into categories:</p>

<p>Climate at School:</p>

<p>I sensed a lot of anger at perceived hypocrisy in the administration. While Grinnell administration preaches self-governance and explain that as a more laissez-faire culture that allows students to make their own choices as long as they don't harm others, many students were *<strong><em>ed off when the College called the police on students smoking pot (Students</a> arrested for marijuana | Scarlet & Black). While I and many students accept that the college cannot simply ignore illegal behavior, we were *</em></strong>ed that Steve Briscoe or Travis Greene called the cops (possibly resulting in a fine of up to $1,000 and 6 months in jail Iowa</a> Marijuana Penalties - NORML), rather than dealing with it within the college.</p>

<p>Academics: This was mixed but slightly disappointing. I was lucky to have two great classes and a great adviser. </p>

<p>However scheduling is a complete nightmare. It is very hard to get into the classes you want. This might be alright if you are undecided and don't really care what you end up in but if you are a premed this is a nightmare. In addition certain classes meet at times that almost guarantee that you won't be able to design an optimal schedule. For example, many classes meet at different times each day. This sounds a lot less bad than it actually is when you sign up for classes.</p>

<p>I was very lucky with the profs that I got. I had an amazing adviser and tutorial, and two pretty good other classes. However, math placement was a nightmare. Rather than a placement test, I was invited to pop into a math profs officer who took two minutes to place me into a class full of students who took A.P Calculus which I didn't. This was a nightmare and I didn't notice until to late so I had to drop and get a W.</p>

<p>Some friends haven't been as lucky. I have been told horror stories about profs who give one A in a class of 25 and refuse to answer questions. </p>

<p>Social Life:</p>

<p>This depends a lot on luck. I was lucky to make some close friends, but I was disappointed that first-years mainly stayed in cliques. I was especially disappointed that these cliques consist of one ethnic group. While I didn't notice much overt racism, there is a lot of self segregation.</p>

<p>The Town:</p>

<p>I was disappointed that I rarely had reason to leave campus beyond going to buy food at Donnelly's to buy chips or Well's Fargo to open a checking account. It's a really small town, and there just isn't anything off-campus to do.</p>

2

<p>I forgot to even mention the homophobic hate crimes on campus. I’m too tired to post details but you can check them out at the s and b’s website.</p>

3

<p>Wow. Devastating if true, especially the self-seg stuff and homophobic hate crimes. With the other stuff, maybe you just had an unlucky first semester?</p>

4

<p>I am so glad I read this post. I was considering Grinnell college, because it has characteristics of Reed College. But, now I definitely do not want to attend.</p>

5

<p>I want to address some of the situations described above. Regarding the pot arrest: a student called campus security to complain, and in this instance, I believe they had to call in the police because of the law (ie, marijuana is an illegal substance). If you read the article, you will see that the security themselves say that students can “self-gov” this first, meaning that if a student feels that it is inappropriate for students to be smoking pot, then they should work it out among themselves, before calling in the authorities. </p>

<p>Regarding the homophobic incident: there have been some cases of this, but in response, the students have protested and spoken out; any bias incidents do not go unanswered on the campus! It is not as if there is rampant bias that gets ignored. </p>

<p>My son did not express any concerns over the registration process, but he is not pre-med. He did have some scheduling conflicts with some courses he wanted to take, but that can happen anywhere, when two preferred courses happen to meet at the same time. </p>

<p>I would ask you to consider how many intro courses you had to take, given that you are a freshman, and what the size of those classes were. I would assume that you weren’t in a huge lecture hall for any of them…</p>

<p>There will be bad profs anywhere. We sat in on intro to Econ on parents weekend, and that professor engaged the class almost the entire time in quesioning, rather than simply lecturing. </p>

<p>I am sorry that you haven’t had a great time at Grinnell. My son, also a first-year, loves it. As far as I can tell, the people he hangs out with are predominantly freshman, but I know that he’s met alot of different people through the activities he’s engaged in. </p>

<p>Regarding the town, people do really need to research their schools before attending. The life of Grinnell does primarily revolve around the campus. Yes, there are restaurants and a movie theater in town, but no, it is not a booming metropolis. We heard an interesting story on our tour with the mayor on parents weekend, about someone who opened a bar in Grinnell thinking that since it was a college town, he would get alot of student business. Turns out the kids don’t really go into town to party, so that business didn’t materialize.</p>

<p>btw, my son also changed his math class from what that professor originally told him to register for. In this case, though, the advice was based more on what the professor thought would be the best progression for my son based on his high school transcript; my son decided after a week that he would switch, because he really wanted to take the other course which was a prerequisite for some potential majors, not because the original one was too difficult.</p>

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<p>jussmall, my guess is that there are probably a few freshman at Reed who are equally disappointed in Reed after first semester (and perhaps didn’t get into every class they wanted or love every professor). I would suggest you not over-react to dan’s frustrations. Keep in mind that he is blaming his math prof because he himself didn’t notice he was in the wrong class until it was too late, is disturbed that Grinnell is a really small college town with all the action on campus, and is implying that Grinnell is homophobic - despite a gay president and the outraged student reaction to a few incidents. I’m not going to say his frustrations aren’t real, but rather that he (and you) might want to keep it in perspective.</p>

<p>dan, re the scheduling issue: One of the obvious drawbacks to any LAC that keeps classes small, is that freshman aren’t always going to get the classes they want, when they want them. Don’t worry about completing your pre-med requirements in time for the MCAT: Most pre-meds at Grinnell have no difficulty completing their required courses. I should also mention that any prof who disses his students by teaching poorly and refusing to answer questions, won’t last long - a Grinnell, 50%of the tenure decision is based on teaching ability.</p>

7

<p>Well, I am speaking as someone who is still in the evaluation stage of colleges for a fall 2011 admit, and as someone who’s job it is to locate credible data, day in and day out. After reading CC posts for a year, you do get a sense for what is usable information and what is not. </p>

<p>Whether freshmen are “happy” is always a subjective matter. Whether you make many friends, etc, depends so much upon the person who you are, and this is true whether you live in a small town, the suburbs, or the big city. We don’t actually know the people who post on CC and so we cannot have a complete picture of the person who has the opinions, praise or complaints. Rather than assigning great weight to one opinion, I look for the “average” of the posts about a college.</p>

<p>The marijuana incident seems odd, but because we don’t actually live in the community, it is difficult to gauge the true seriousness of the matter. Is it a message from the administration? A one-time oddball occurrence? We don’t know because we don’t live there. Plus, being in the bubble of an isolated town, sometimes small things take on a larger level of importance than they deserve. Maybe it is no big deal to the population of students who do not post comments on CC? </p>

<p>News Flash: the administration of businesses control the purse strings and therefore make the important decisions.</p>

<p>I read of the “homophobic incident” in the college newspaper online, and am not concerned because: 1) students who leave dorm rooms unlocked, gay or not, will eventually have a bad experience of some kind, and 2) percentage-wise, one incident at a school of this size is nothing to put up a red flag for. Grinnell, like many LAC, bends over backwards on LGBT issues as far as I can see.</p>

<p>Teachers do vary, and unfortunately are not 100% at any school you choose, that is life. In the working world your bosses won’t be 100% great either. Grinnell’s overall teacher quality is comparable to this level of LAC as far as I can tell. Regarding calculus placement, it seems like a no-brainer to choose the math you should be in after high school; the choice should be realistic because you’re not in high school any more.</p>

<p>As far as the small town, it does seems like Grinnell is very up front in their communications about that, and so as long as there are many campus activities, which Grinnell certainly has, and you make an effort to get involved, then there is no issue here.</p>

<p>Overall, there are no “facts” here to change the results of previous research.</p>

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<p>@1bie792,
The fact that homophobic slurs spray-painted on an lgbt student’s wall does not concern you because “students who leave dorm rooms unlocked, gay or not, will eventually have a bad experience of some kind” disturbs me. I’m not alleging widespread homophobia from the administration of the college or the student body, but the fact that homophobic hate crimes have occurred multiple times in the last few years makes me as an lgbt student feel uncomfortable.
The marijuana incident is serious because it shows that the college is willing to put students who are unlucky enough to get caught blazing (which many students do but don’t get caught) through a legal system that may send them to prison, rather than trusting the Dean of Student Affairs and Judicial Committee with enforcing a reasonable punishment.
@ M’s Mom
I’m not saying I’m completely not to blame for not realizing that my difficulties in my math classes were due to not having appropriate background withing the (comparatively short) time limit to drop the class without a w. But I do think that I should have been guided to an appropriate placement.
@ SdonCC
I didn’t expect Grinnell to be a booming metropolis or something like that. But I expected at least some interaction with the outside community.</p>

<p>Many of the positive things parents have said here are true. I’m in activities I love and have some close friends. But prospies should consider the full reality of what they are getting into.</p>

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<p>Of course homophobic slurs would make you feel uncomfortable, but aren’t you encouraged by the widespread expression of outrage and support among the campus community in response? This kind of bias can happen anywhere, unfortunately, and to me, it’s a plus that the people around you don’t let these hateful expressions go without a response. As an institution, Grinnell seems to be doing the right things; the acts of some individuals don’t seem to signify campus-wide attitude or practices.</p>

<p>As far as interaction with the community, Grinnell has a number of community service opportunities to engage with townspeople, and the events on campus are all open to the public. The firefighters came on campus to cook pancakes during finals week, too, for example. My son seems to have gone out to eat at a number of different places (and I guess that going out to eat is about the extent of “things to do” in Grinnell by and large, I guess, unless it’s bowling or the movies). One of the things my son loves about the town is that strangers will look him in the eye and say hello! For prospies reading this, the campus itself is just two blocks away from the historic town center (with Walmart and such a short drive away), and I guess the same places could get old, but “town and gown” seem to be well-integrated as these things go, but it is a small town. </p>

<p>Again, I don’t think that the administration “went after” these students smoking pot, but when a complaint was brought to security, it had a legal obligation to act on it. My son and I both find it unfortunate that a student acted in this way to bring in the authorities (while I’m not technically saying pot smoking is okay, I recognize that “pot happens” at colleges…).</p>

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<p>The other thing I would like to suggest for prospies considering Grinnell, or any other college, is not only to consider the quality of the professors, but the level of student engagement in the classroom. Whenever my son visited a class, he would try to watch the students and not just the professors. For his Grinnell visit, he sat in on an Econ class (300 level) and was impressed by the real-world examples students used to illustrate points they were making. Now that he’s at Grinnell, due to the nature of his courses, he has been in just one real discussion class (tutorial) and the discussions were vibrant, engaging and evenly participated in by all the students in the class. In the Econ class we sat in on, we noticed that hands were raised from all around the classroom; it wasn’t just a few kids answering the questions. My son has only completed his first semester, so we’re not the best source for gauging academics as a whole, but his experience so far has lived up to his hopes for interesting classroom experiences. At least if students are complaining, it’s about a teacher that won’t allow questions; to me, that says good things about your peers!</p>

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<p>Dan, thanks for posting your experiences here. I’ll take them in the spirit I think they’re being offered – as one man’s experiences. While looking at colleges we are inundated with overwhelmingly positive information from each college – all of it true, but all of it carefully selected as well. A report from the trenches like this isn’t “negative,” it’s simply a more realistic look at the school and helps us make a more informed decision, and I appreciate you taking the time to do it. That said, fall semester freshman year is usually the roughest, and you should probably expect things to improve from here.</p>

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<p>dan–I’m sorry you’ve had some rough spots first semester. My son is a senior and has had mostly a great time at Grinnell. Maybe he got lucky first semester being at Norris, sometimes called the worst dorm on campus, but he made more friends in a few months than in his entire life pre-Grinnell.</p>

<p>He has had trouble getting 2 classes he wanted outside of his major, but has mostly loved his classes and profs.</p>

<p>The town is incredibly rural and there is very little to do off campus, but more than you could possibly do on campus. My son knew this going in. I think the little supermarket is McNally’s.</p>

<p>I believe the new president has a learning curve about things like marijuana use. I was dismayed also about the handling of this.</p>

<p>And I hope no one will minimize the pure awfulness of any gay- bashing incident or anything like it. We all need to stand up for the rights and safety of all of us. I do believe that the students did stand up in defense of their fellow students, but I’m sure it must feel awful for you. No excuses, but it only takes one disturbed individual to do something like this.</p>

<p>My son is “white”, more like peach-colored really, and his 2 best friends at Grinnell are black and Hispanic. The posse program makes a real effort to mix it up with ethnic and economic diversity, as does the larger college community.</p>

<p>Again, I’m sure you are being honest, dan, about your experience and I don’t for a minute want to minimize or negate any part of it. At all. Thanks for sharing it. That’s what CC is for. Hope next semester is better for you!</p>

<p>Oh, I should add that my son did take a placement test for French and totally started taking 300 level courses first semester. Math people at Grinnell should be reading this and taking note.</p>

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<p>Dan100991,
Given what you’ve said, would you return to Grinnell if you were given the chance to start college over again? Also, how excited were you when you first arrived there? Thanks for the info, I’m trying to decide between a dozen or so colleges, so I really appreciate the heads up.</p>

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<p>mkshort–you really might want to think about your personal “fit” for a college. It can be helpful to hear the opinions of others, but you might or might not have much in common with the OP. My son applied to 10 colleges, was admitted to all of them and chose Grinnell. It was a great choice for him, but would not be the best choice for everyone. Visit if you can.</p>

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<p>But that is pretty obvious with a minimum of research.
<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board;

<p>Some might actually <em>like</em> this kind of quiet. My son, a prospie, does. I saw him beaming and comfortable during his visit. He loved it that there was a movie house around the corner. He’s a bookish kind of guy. I kinda likened Grinnell to an academic retreat, monastery or maybe an ‘academic country club’. If you really like academics, seems like a good place to go to focus on this. By looking at the outcomes post grad (80 pct in grad pgm 5 yrs hence), one can see the kind of people who go here.</p>

<p>45 mins to the west is desmoines and 45 mins to the east is iowa city for more stuff to do. </p>

<p>The scheduling problem seems to be with students in all colleges , big or small, in my experience of both categories of schools. D at a small school. friends’ kids at big state U. One semester is not a lot of sample on which to draw conclusions.</p>

<p>On the drug bust, I did not dig below and view the links’ articles, but if they were doing illegal activity, the owners of the property, the administration (not the students, despite some kind of claims about student run gov’t ), are responsible for what goes down on its premises - as I would as a homeowner and there were a party going on where illegal stuff was happening.</p>

<p>Freedom is an interesting concept and always in friction with non-freedom. There is no absolute freedom.</p>

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<p>THe homo phobe criticism is surprising to me since my observations indicated an extraordinary tolerance for gays. I learned on the CC pages that the new prez of GC is actually gay with a husband - is that what you’d call him? The latest Princeton Review even put GC as a top colleges that is gay friendly.
<a href=“LGBTQ-Friendly Colleges | The Princeton Review”>LGBTQ-Friendly Colleges | The Princeton Review;

</p>

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<p>When I visited Grinnell with my son, there was a same-sex couple (male) engaging in a very public display of affection in the dining hall, and no one was giving them a second look. Clearly, this couple felt comfortable enough with themselves and their classmates. I visited about 17 colleges in all (mostly LACs), and Grinnell was the only place where I saw same-sex public affection. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, there will be acts of intolerance (racial, gender-based, religious, etc.) by some idiot almost everywhere, but the better schools, including Grinnell, will try to use them as a teachable moment. I have to believe that Grinnell is one of the most gay-friendly small schools out there, notwithstanding the incidents described by the OP.</p>

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<p>As a current student at Grinnell, I can tell you that homophobia is not at all received warmly on campus. It is a very LGBT friendly campus. If there’s any intolerance at all, chances are that it is done covertly rather than overtly. Trust me. I heard a freshman (not too far removed from juvenile high school culture) say “that’s gay” and he was promptly scolded by his peers.</p>

19

<p>dan, you might want to have a chat with your new president about your adjustment to small-town life. Here’s what was said in his interview with “Inside Higher Ed:”</p>

<p>Moving to a small community in Iowa has been gratifying, but also an adjustment, he said. “My neighborhoods were usually larger” than Grinnell, Iowa is. And for the first time in his career, he said, he’s instantly recognized everywhere he goes in the area. (He joked about standing out as the “gay black dad president.”)</p>

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<p>And I expect he will be a wonderful president. I think it’s natural though for there to be an adjustment period for everyone with a new administration.</p>

<p>Empowered23–I share your sense of the campus, but I understand how threatening even one incident of homophobic behavior must feel and I think there was one last year too. I do believe that Grinnell students use these incidents as teachable moments, but that doesn’t erase the fear.</p>

<p>As far as the small rural town goes, it’s definitely not for everyone.</p>