Students can attend whatever discipline they want. They just have to take a placement test that is tough and subject specific. It is possible to design such tests. It has been done in other countries.
… again, what’s this huge and prolonged horrible system you’re trying to cure? Tell me what that looks like. I don’t see it.
You want a national exam? Ask my Indian and Korean and Chinese neighbors why they took jobs in the US so they could raise their kids away from that god-awful system.
“the best STEM schools in the country” – you seem to think this is a tiny pool. It’s not. (again, see my first point) There are very few accomplished and high potential students who aren’t getting their fill. There’s no dearth in quality education. I agree that there’s a surplus of people who feel they need to attend a “top X” number USNWR school. Your “fixes” would simply codify that further.
Like I said, your non-holistic models exist in droves already. But people eschew them and turn away to other schools that expressly don’t slap everyone onto a spreadsheet and make offers to the top 12% of SAT+GPA+ whatever academic metrics you seem to think are so infallible.
Just look at the evidence. Of the schools in the country with under 20% admit rate, how many do NOT practice holistic evaluations? What does that tell you about the collective marketplace? Kids WANT to attend these schools – indeed a large reason is because they practice holistic admissions. They will be confident that not all their classmates will be bookworm robots – * and they love that idea!
- Excuse me while I go and refill my holistic praising Kool Aid.
Come on. Now that is a straw man. I said Assigned based on the students preference list. I can pick the top 10 schools I want to attend in rank order. Then I am matched with a school. We do this for Medical schools and Residency programs. Nobody is screaming bloody murder for that
For starters, I disagree with premises 4, 5, and 7.
Completely disagree. We are not basing this on just your school GPA or even an SAT/ACT style exam. You are tested on your knowledge of the subject area. It is possible to create such tests. We do it now for various professional certifications.
Yeah, looking back at your list, I vehemently disagree with #4 and 7. And 3 is a stretch too. I agree with 5, but not how you measure it.
Still thinking about this crazy idea.
Would you totally eliminate college sports, or just have intramurals and put it in the arena?
Would there be no arts or music education at these colleges? And no bands or theater groups?
What about majors? What happens if all the top scoring kids want engineering?
I have more questions but need to go to dinner. lol.
This notion that only rich white or Asian kids can do well in tests is a complete myth. In many other countries, poor kids do well as well. In fact lower middle class kids who dedicate themselves to excelling in academics do much better than rich kids. You can design tests that cannot be gamed because you are rich.
I find this whole line of thought really strange. This is academics we are talking about here. IT is University study. It should be about academics!! When I play basket ball it should not be about whether my self esteem is hurt because I cannot compete with a 6 feet 8 inch giant who will crush me at a basketball game. Neither should it be about whether I deserve a spot on the team, because it will add meaning to other top players to see a weak player like me play with them and I would bring different perspective to the game! Nor should it be about whether I had opportunities in life to become a good basketball player. If I can play, I get in, if I can’t I don’t. Not at the NBA level. I can go play elsewhere more appropriate for my skill level.
Anyway, I told you what my assumptions were upfront. If you dont agree with them, I can see why this whole line of thought seems absurd to you, but I believe that Universities are primarily academic institutions, where academic hard work should be rewarded.
Nobody is saying that a “person with academic potential” should be denied an education, but to say that they deserve a spot in a school that receives thousands of more academically qualified students, just because they have potential is absurd in my opinion. I am sure most will disagree with me.
I want students to list their top schools and schools to make matches based on objective academic criteria. We do this for Medical school residencies. A person scoring low on the USMLE STEP exam has almost zero chance of landing a highly coveted specialty residency. Is this unfair on the low scoring student? This is not a strange bizarre idea. Why cant we create a similar system for undergraduate study. Yes, there will be some tweaks to the system, but we can do this.
This should not be about what kids want!! That is just strange. I want to play in the NBA. who cares? I am not qualified to play at that level. End of story.
Yeah, if you disagree with my basic premise, I can see why this idea sounds bizarre to you. I completely get that. That is why I stated my premise upfront. My solution only follows or makes sense if you agree with the premise. Otherwise the whole discussion is pointless.
Well, I agree with assumption #1… and that’s about it.
Division III for academically rigorous schools is a good model. Student athletes
Why do you say that? There must be ways to objectively measure and compare students who want to study these majors outside the flawed holistic process?
I don’t get this. There are limited slots. Once the slots are gone, they are gone? You are not entitled to get the major that you want. That happens even now
@Eagledad33 That’s exactly why I stated them so explicitly 
If you don’t agree with the premises, this whole thread will look bizarre.
Colleges want students who will DO things, not just know things. Of course they want smart, capable students, but they also want future leaders, future innovators.
Who would you rather have in your lab, the 4.0 UW GPA kid who spent his entire high school career studying to maintain his status as valedictorian or the one who’s been doing top-notch original research but has a 3.8 UW GPA? Who do you think is more likely to become our next Poet Laureate, the 2400 SAT kid who can identify any poem put in front of her or the 2200 SAT kid whose poems have been published in numerous magazines?
Of course they do if they have talent. Ever heard of Muggsy Bogues, Isaiah Thomas or Spud Webb? The problem with your system is that it would knock the “short” student out of the running before he or she had a chance to prove their talent.
As others have said, there are countries across the globe that admit to colleges strictly based on entrance exams and plenty of schools in the US admit almost exclusively on stats. I’m pretty comfortable with the system we have.
You don’t think D3 student athletes get a boost in admissions?
If this system is working so well in other places, why are students not clamoring for slots there? Students from all over the world are clamoring for slots in our holistic college admissions where a student is not reduced to a number.
What is behind this? I sense that this is a parent who has quite a bit of anxiety about the uncertainty for their child. Yes, our system leaves parents and students perplexed because there is no one path to college A vs College B. But that is also what is unique about it and in a way, awesome.
Take deep breaths. Your kid will be OK.
Well said. 
This is a complete red herring. I know of a country where extremely well academically qualified kids have gone to top notch schools and then have gone on to found great companies and employ many many people. I am not asking to base admission on just your GPA. But if you are for example interested in engineering, you need to have an excellent command over physics, chemistry, math etc. That can be tested, such that only the top 2% or so kids will really do well on the test. Really test their concepts, not some simple GPA based on school work. This can be done. It has been done.
Not at all. What I don’t think is fair though is for the short guy to say that "Yeah ,I don’t play at the level of this tall guy over here, but you must still take me, because having a short guy on the team adds perspective to all these entitled tall guys and its not my fault that I am short and have less talent. I have potential though. The NBA would laugh this person out of the room.
If you play well you are in. Nothing else matters. Your birth, your genes, what life threw at you. Nobody cares. You have to play well. If you don’t, tough luck, go play somewhere else, just not the NBA. And everybody is ok with that, but try to argue that elite schools should be like the NBA and people get bent out of shape!!
Not really. Trust me.
OP, you didn’t acknowledge my points about gifted kids who might have learning disabilities or be from lower SES. I do get holistic admissions, and I think it is only surprising that it seems have taken our universities so long to get around to actually doing things that way. At the core of the American higher eduction system is the ideal of being well-rounded, and holistic admissions really compliments this ideal. Where I have problems with the system is that it rewards the A type personality. I digress a bit in saying this, but being the parent of a shy and quiet kid, I do think the current system definitely favors extroverts. No doubt someone will come along to disagree with me though.