<p>The thing is we don’t know if CB informs the colleges in any way how many tests we’ve taken and how many of those scores we send in yet. The field seems completely even right now with the exception of the fact that some colleges do not accept SAT Score Choice, but accept ACT score choice. Take what seriouslywow quoted in the first page as an example. The ACT has always been score choice, but Yale wants us to send in all score. This is similar to the situation with the SAT. Hopefully, sooner or later, we’ll know if the CB or ACT will tell colleges if we send in all scores.</p>
<p>I don’t understand either side: why a college would be so obssessed with getting all the score reports or why students would be so eager to conceal bad test performance.</p>
<p>First of all, since all of these top schools claim to consider only the top scores on each sitting, why should it matter to them whether a student decides to use Score Choice or not? I can see if a school has told students all along that they will be considering all of a students’ scores, but…</p>
<p>Second of all, since students know that the majority of schools consider the highest SAT scores, why are they so paranoid about releasing all of their scores?</p>
<p>Thirdly, students can only do Score Choice by test DATE, not the individual score. So if you get a 560 math and a 800 verbal in one sitting, and a 690 math and 750 verbal in the next, and you want the schools to see that 800 AND that 690, you would have to send all of your scores anyway.</p>
<p>Beyond that, the College Board (who has a vested interest in people taking the SAT to make money) has stated that there’s no empirical evidence that people can substantially boost their SAT score by taking the test more than twice. On average, students who take the test a second time see only modest score increases, and after a second time, the increases are even smaller. Many scholars have done studies and found that taking the test more than 2-3 times does not produce any substantial increase in scores. There are educational psychologists and measurement specialists who are specifically designing both the SAT and ACT so that scores don’t go up artificially just by taking the exam over and over again. It’s the psychological measurement principal of reliability. An exam that gives wildly different results on different sittings of an exam is not a reliable exam, and so the ETS researchers avoid that. You can only do so much studying to improve your score.</p>
<p>Sewhappy and juillet have both got it spot on.</p>
<p>This truly is the main issue:
And until I receive concrete evidence that score choice users will not be flagged, I will not be using it. I need to send all my scores for the superscore anyway.</p>
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<p>Colleges pay College Board plenty. To carry out their marketing efforts and fill our mailboxes (with the goal of boosting their own rankings) colleges buy student names from CB. It used to be 28 cents a name, but I recently read the figure had gone up.</p>
<p>D just got her second SAT scores. She went up in every section. I doubt very much she will be sending the results of her first SAT to anyone.</p>
<p>^^^ sewhappy,
You’ve got this completely backward. Yale is not claiming any right, contractual or otherwise, to get your test scores from the College Board; that’s between the test-taker and the College Board. But Yale has every right in the world to set its own admissions policies and standards, and if as a condition of admission it’s going to require that you submit all the SATs and ACTs you’ve ever taken, it has every right in the world to do so. Just as Yale is entitled to say it won’t admit you unless you submit your high school transcript, even though Yale has no legal right to see it without your consent.</p>
<p>The big question here is, how can they enforce an “all scores” policy? That’s a little unclear to me. But I’d caution that if you decide to pull a fast one on them and send only a subset of your scores when they’re asking to see all of them, you’re essentially deciding to submit a fraudulent application. Now of course some people already do this, e.g., by making up or embellishing their ECs, or embellishing their essays with fictional “facts,” or hiring people to write their essays for them. Some probably get away with it, as all of this is difficult for colleges to detect. But if you ever do get caught, you risk not only denial of admission but also possibly expulsion well after you are admitted, or possibly even after-the-fact revocation of your degree on grounds that it was fraudulently obtained. And bottom line, it’s just plain reprehensible behavior: simply put, it’s lying and cheating. If you do get admitted to a college on that basis, you don’t belong there, and you should feel guilty about it the rest of your life as your degree will have been acquired on the basis of fraud.</p>
<p>By the way, I believe colleges do pay the College Board to get lists of PSAT takers who have agreed to receive mail from interested colleges. I believe they also get the names and addresses of SAT-takers who opt in to the College Board’s “college search” service. That’s how the colleges get names and addresses for all those mass mailings they send out promoting themselves. If the College Board sends the colleges new lists after each test date, colleges could use this information to determine whether you took the test on a given date, and although they wouldn’t know your score they might be able to determine that your Score Choice report had omitted scores from that test date. Also, some high schools include SAT scores as part of the official transcript they send to colleges. If your HS does this and the scores and test dates don’t match up with the scores and test dates you’ve elected to send the college via Score Choice, the college might detect the fraud and disqualify you.</p>
<p>
Indeed, so why is this? Because maybe they <em>don’t</em> really ONLY consider the top scores. In fact, the opting out of score choice and some of the comments about that (I am looking at you Mr. Poch of Pomona) suggest that the colleges themselves are not being completely upfront about how they are evaluating their information.</p>
<p>As some colleges have not been completely above aboard in the past regarding reporting some of their data, comparing FA and admission info, etc., is deciding to supress one of the scores that a student has paid for “pulling a fast one”, and is it really that different than what the colleges themselves have done and are continuing to do?</p>
<p>That said, I do think bclintok makes some very interesting points, and makes a persuasive case that using score choice for those schools opting out may well not be worth it.</p>
<p>bclintonk,</p>
<p>If you read my posts comprehensively you would have understood that my personal advice to my daughter is simply to refrain from applying to colleges like Yale who are demanding all scores. The colleges’ posture on this issue is something of a litmus test for us. They either pass or don’t pass. Yale and Stanford have failed the test in our household. Our child won’t be applying to them no matter how her test scores turn out. Simply don’t approve of their arrogance and disregard for student privacy and stress levels.</p>
<p>My daughter is something of a power scorer and shows promise of extremely high scores given her performance in middle school talent searches. Perhaps I have an unconscious motive at work. She could well be in the zone of admission for Yale and Stanford and in all honesty as a full freight household I would prefer that she look elsewhere anyway.</p>
<p>Tired of the games.</p>
<p>Wow, really. You would steer your daughter away from Stanford and Yale because of this? Your vilification of the schools that appear to have been doing this as part of their admission process over the years is a little over the top. Score choice is a new policy, everyone is adjusting to it including the schools themselves. I don’t think colleges have any other ulterior motive except to find the best candidates for attending their schools.</p>
<p>^ My older one was accepted at both Stanford and Yale. I guess I just don’t feel that sense of awe any more about such institutions. It’s the hand-wringing over the supposed advantage of wealthy kids behind their demand for all scores that turns me off. Very tired of such rhetoric.</p>
<p>I hope CB will clear all this up soon. </p>
<p>I don’t really care about colleges seeing my SAT scores. I wouldn’t mind if one of my subject test scores went away though =] (retook it only to get about the same score. i honestly thought I would do MUCH better…otherwise I wouldn’t have wasted my time)</p>
<p>I and many of my friends took the ACT in 8th and 9th grade just so we knew what sitting through such a long test would feel like. None of us studied for it; we knew about score choice and thought these tests would just be for practice. My first score was a 27 and has gone up a lot since then (once I learned all the math covered on the test in 10th grade), but do you think I would still have to submit my scores that aren’t from junior year? By “rejecting score choice” that would be implied, but I wasn’t sure if there were any exceptions or if I should submit them and note that I took them for practice when I was younger, etc. Has anyone been in this situation, or any advice? thanks</p>
<p>^ I don’t think there’s any way a college can check that for the ACT. There’s always been a choice for ACT takers to just send whatever score they want. So I’m guessing colleges are relying on the honor system for that because they can’t tell.</p>
<p>The problem is whether CB will say if a student used Score Choice or not… I don’t think ACT takers have to worry.</p>
<p>Just because a student uses score choice it doesn’t necessarily mean that he/she has more than one set of scores, does it? Does a student sign up for score choice at the test date? If so, what if a student signs up for score choice anticipating taking the SAT twice. First test score is a 2300 and he/she decides not to test again. The CB will flag the student as using score choice even though there is only one test. So, should colleges be “suspicious” if there is score choice?</p>
<p>As for ACT, I agree that there is no way for colleges to know since ACT will only release specified test dates that the student requests. As far as I know, ACT doesn’t indicate that only one of your multiple tests was released.</p>
<p>Cavalierpup brings up a good point. I don’t think pre high school scores are required to be released, but some kids might take ACT in 9th grade just for practice or maybe to take courses at CTY or something like that. They probably took thinking this score would not have to be released, but if some colleges say they want all ACT scores they may feel uncomfortable releasing their 26 from 9th grade when they now have a 33 as a senior</p>
<p>SAT score choice does not work that way. There is no “signing up” of score choice in the process. When student is ready to send a score, the student can select certain scores to be sent and that’s it. The question is, will schools find out somehow if student does not send all the scores when the school specifically indicate that they want all the scores. This last part is not well understood because score choice is new for SAT. I don’t know about ACT, but from what I read, the schools do not find out or care to because that’s the way ACT has been doing business for awhile. I would think that SAT score choice would work the same way after the dust settles (schools not able to find out if student use it), but no one knows for sure at this point.</p>
<p>As for SAT taken earlier in middle school, when you sign up, CB specifically said that scores taken before high school would not be sent for college application later on when the kids are ready to apply for college. A lot of kids take SAT in middle school to apply for special educational programs like CTY and other summer programs and CB understand that those lower scores should never be sent later on. CB mentioned that when my kids took SAT in middle school.</p>
<p>I’ve noticed that ACT takers are getting swept up in the wave of colleges opting out of score choice. Stanford, Pomona, Yale - to name a few - are now requiring all ACT test sittings, not just all SAT scores. Annoying in a couple of ways: First, I’ve heard that one has to pay separately to send each ACT score, because ACT has always been set up that way - which makes sense because few if any colleges will superscore the ACT, so why would they need more than one report. Secondly, my D took both the SAT and ACT once as a diagnostic test that would allow her to pick which one she wants to focus on. That was back when score choice was supposed to be the rule. Now that she has a great score on round 2 of the ACT, it will be a drag for her to have to submit the less fabulous first score. Grrr!</p>
<p>Colleges won’t be able to tell who has sent all their ACT scores and many people may choose not to send all of them. Especially if you have to pay for each one!</p>