<p>The very wealthy schools can afford to do it. And typically, the wealthy have an advantage getting in there in the first place due to socio-economic factors like better school, higher sat's, more chance to do varied and diverse ec's.</p>
<p>So it seems to me the regular, average kid, who goes to get a decent education at a lower tier school, but still a top 100 lac, is really behind the 8-ball and the gap will just continue getting bigger. The kid that is fortunate enough, and we all know that even though a lot of hard work goes into it, a lot of it is just plain luck, gets the advantage of an IVY education, so therefore supposedly better job and grad school prosepcts and graduates debt free. While the average, middle class kid at a lower ranked/endowed school graduates with say, 25k debt, is already behind and is not going to get as supposedly good a job or will not have the option of grad school due to ever mounting debt.</p>
<p>Somehow, giving the more advantaged even more of an advantage does not solve the problem of the average middle class family, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what "whole new trend in financial aid" has gotten you so peeved.</p>
<p>Since you mention the very wealthy schools, are you talking about the elite schools like Harvard, Princeton, etc. that have recently announced generous financial aid for lower-income families (capping tuition at a % of family income, replacing loans with grants, etc.)? Yes, those programs do nothing to help average middle-class families like yours afford those schools. But that is not giving the more advantaged more advantages because those programs don't apply to wealthy families either. </p>
<p>And do not believe all of that hype about an Ivy degree getting you better job and grad school prospects. There are many, many schools where you can get a first-rate education, (including many public universities like UVA, Michigan, Ohio State, Berkeley) for a price far less than the Ivies charge. There are also many top schools that offer merit scholarships in addition to need-based aid, so please do not be discouraged.</p>
<p>Well, merit scholarships will never be offered to the point where you pay less then your EFC. And it's not just the IVY's. Bowdoin Colby they are all getting rid of loans too. My daughter has 28k in loans and she is only through 3 years and I have taken a huge home equity loan and I have my son starting next year. He did get a huge merit offer, but has not heard the financial aid piece yet. It's still just a drop in the bucket.</p>
<p>My family makes under 60k a year, we have no assets other than our partially paid-off 1000 sq.ft, 60 year old house. We own one 15-year-old subcompact car. My son got accepted to a wealthy and generous school, and the aid there will help him immensely. Our EFC will still be a stretch for us to meet, so it's not as though there will be no hardship on our part.</p>
<p>So, I guess I have a different perspective on this because my son did not come from privilege, nor does he go to a prep school, nor did he have private tutors or access to ec's that any other kid wouldn't have access to. His SATs were good, but he studied hard for them -- often out of used prep books he got from friends.</p>
<p>He also was not so disadvantaged as to be able to take advantage of Questbridge or other targeted programs.</p>
<p>I do agree with part of what you're saying, though. Financially, our only good options were really community college or an elite private school. Isn't that peculiar? The people I feel are getting pinched the most are kids with B level grades and test scores, and with parents who gross around 70 - 80 thousand dollars. This seems like the hardest spot, and one that the needs-blind, no-loans schools are really in a position to help the most, but admissions is so competitive now.</p>
<p>Rich families make more, the kids can take out less in loans (or perhaps nothing in loans at all) and the financial aid initiatives really don't make any difference there. Those families will be paying a lot regardless.</p>
<p>I think the first, immediate thing that has to happen is that our public universities need to get the funding necessary to support real, high quality education at reasonable costs. It's brilliant that some well-endowed privates are stepping up, but they can't fix this one institution at a time -- nor should it be solely up to them to do so.</p>
<p>I would also add for future applicants: Don't automatically accept the conventional wisdom that kids needing financial aid should not apply ED. It depends on a number of things, primarily how simple your family's finances are and how transparent the school is about their aid policies -- but it can certainly be an advantage to getting into a school of your dreams, which might also be a school that has the financial aid programs to support your education the most fully.</p>
<p>I know I'll get hammered on that advice, and I don't mean to suggest it's the best <em>general</em> advice, but when certain individual factors are clear and predictable, it's an opportunity that is wasted if one doesn't look a little more closely instead of just accepting that it's a bad idea.</p>
<p>Especially with grade inflation gone crazy in public high schools, it is definitely tougher for kids with a B average. I suppose a good place for them to start would be at state supported colleges and hope for better grades or programs there. </p>
<p>My sons' friend was whining to us because his EFC was almost 50K. He's worried with his 3.25, he'll get no merit aid (duh) and no financial aid either.</p>
<p>We decided long ago we won't tap our home equity and we won't dip into retirement for college.</p>
<p>Your son's friend with the 50K EFC, the family must have resources. I mean, 50K would pay full-freight at the most expensive school. A state school would be a pretty good bargain for a family like that, I'd guess, and merit aid can be gotten with a 3.25 at a number of state schools. It's not going to be a mountain of merit aid, but there could likely be some at least.</p>
<p>When you look at out-of-state tuition at public universities like University of VA, the cost is prohibitive. Period. And, I doubt a big chunk of Fin Aid is going to go to us out-of-staters. And, our state institution is nowhere near as great as a UVa or UMich. They are among the best schools around.
The problem with needs-blind "admissions" is that financial aid at those schools will not exceed what you need over and above your calculated EFC. You cannot get a merit scholarship, say, for being a top-notch scholar. These NB schools routinely lose freshman to other institutions which can offer more to lure them.<br>
The problem is this: last time I estimated, our EFC is $20- $24k per year for each kid. We do not have it. Not even close. At an NB school, they can get loans, but not merit awards. They come out behind, financially. I know NB is meant to support lower income kids- but there is no similar wonderful glorious solution for the middle class. Period.</p>
<p>Out-of-state tuition is a whole other issue, and may or may not be a problem since the point of state-funded schools is primarily to provide a subsidized education to taxpayers of the state. Our state system is not that good either, but the costs or the finaid available at better OOS schools is just our hard luck. I can't see there's anything to be done about that... other than the long term objective of building up our own state univ. system.</p>
<p>Yes, that's me. 70-80k range, two kids in college with an efc of 8500 each. The first school is very unlikely to come up with more money her efc used to be ^16k,</p>
<p>Both b students. My son has 1270 ( or 1240 not super scored) on cr and m. We geared his lists to be very match/safety heavy due to financial issues and even with 5 acceptances so far, he still can not name a favorite due to the aid packages haven't come yet.</p>
<p>I have no assets and have already tapped into quite a bit of home equity for my first, although I guess that should help when they do their t hing with the profile.</p>
<p>It really makes that Ivy type admissions more desperate for some families and more crushing when it does not happen.</p>
<p>On UVA they came out with some sort of a low income package based on AGI etc and they actively pursued in state and out of state people with a great package for fin aid.</p>
<p>The sad part about it is the people who are one year ahead of these new programs, I don't think the schools are going back and applying their new marketing to those existing students; and for people who just finished their 2 years when there were none of those programs and who either have big loans or chose their school based on $, it does feel "no fair"</p>
<p>I did make a mistake- it's $24 for both kids, per year, not for each. Still unreachable. I worked for one of the NB schools, in a position where I saw what happened to departments that had a lot of endowment/scholarship money, but not enough "needy" kids to give it to. Literally, the money has to sit there in the college's pool of funds. The departments can either lose the use of these funds or start selecting students based on their financial need!</p>
<p>My older girl is an A- student- and the type that does best in a competitive environment, with lots of motivated fellow students around her. Our state school does not even have the major she wants- and does have a rep for being a party school. I went to a small college- loved it and came out well-educated. But, this kid is smarter! and deserves a great school with lots of intellectual activity.
Thanks for the info about UVa. Our problem is not that we spent our money on vacations and a second car. We have an old house that we bought cheap, we keep the thermostat low in winter. I stretch every dollar, etc. BUT, because of the terrible situation with public high schools in our area, we are paying for prep school- yes, with fin aid, but still a huge drain.</p>
<p>Somemom, most of the schools I have knowledge of are applying the new aid packages to all currently enrolled students. I haven't heard of one that says no-loans for freshman, but yes-loans for sophomores.</p>
<p>(By currently enrolled, of course, I mean enrolled when the finaid policies are in effect. If the new policies take effect for the 08-09 year, that would not include kids enrolled now in the 07-08 year.)</p>
<p>"Well, merit scholarships will never be offered to the point where you pay less then your EFC."</p>
<p>For most schools, the FAFSA and CSS Profile are not required for merit awards, only for those seeking financial aid. Our EFC doesn't qualify us for financial aid anywhere, so we never submitted a FAFSA or CSS Profile, but my son has an academic scholarship that covers tuition, fees, and books for four years with no GPA or other strings. He opted for his school over other higher ranked schools in part because he wanted to assume financial responsibility for his education and graduate debt free. Both of his parents are graduates of elite schools and yes, he has "sacrificed" some name cache with his decision, but name cache is a trade-off he is happy to make because he is confident he doesn't require it to be happy and successful. There are merit awards to be had, regardless of one's financial need, if one is willing to look at schools where one's stats puts one in the very top of the applicant pool.</p>
<p>To the poster above, I meant if you qualify for aid, they will give you a combination of merit and need based aid.</p>
<p>Obviously if you don't qualify for aid, you can get merit that will reduce what you have to pay. In my case, our efc is $8600 per child. We will never pay less than that and will pay more, even with the merit aid.</p>
<p>This new trend is great for people with a low EFC and who get into the incredibly competitive schools. If my DD who is now in grad school had chosen to take huge loans to attend one of the privates UG and now that school offered a no loan, super program, I would have some resentment that simply by the randomness of which year one attended means ones would no longer have that loan package whilst my DD was struggling to pay off her loans.</p>
<p>It makes those tough top schools a double desperation options- people want the famous prestigious name brand and now they want the no loans, super package too. Admissions could make an even more significant factor in peoples lives now!</p>
<p>The thing is, there <em>is</em> no-loan aid at other schools, they just don't make a big deal of announcing it because it's on a case by case basis. So this isn't just "if you can't get into the Ivies you won't have loans". I think that this is going to spread, but I don't expect that every school will crow about it.</p>