"Those ECs are weak...."- So what's good?

Chance Me / Match Me!
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<p>"Well, I did something that was quite unprecedented: I asked the directors if I could recruit musicians for the pit and rehearse them as well. It would consist of entirely student musicians (except for the vocal director on keyboards) and I ended up conducting the production in my SOPHOMORE year. With more experience, I did the same thing in my junior year. Because I had some matters during my senior year that took up a lot of my time, I abdicated from the position, and that year, the vocal director conducted from the piano. The pit however, was still comprised of student. I continued to do some backstage work for the production that took less time so I was able to dedicate more time to what I needed to do that year. </p>

<p>My point is, a fulfilling and "decent" activity need not be outside of your own high school. "</p>

<p>Yes, that is exactly right, and that is a wonderful example of an outstanding EC that was done at the local level because of one students' creativity, leadership, hard work and determination.</p>

<p>Does this mean that the student will get into HPYS? I have no clue because as mentioned before, such universities have an overabundance of excellent applicants. I would rate, however, such an EC as being the equivalent of a 2400 SAT, and, frankly far rarer than are 2400 SATs in top colleges' pools.</p>

<p>If the student who did that activity managed to do it while maintaining a rigorous courseload, high gpa, and excellent SAT scores, s/he is far ahead of most other students in the top college admission pools. The rare students who are able to take on the kind of leadership that the poster describe typically do such things while ignoring their schoolwork, so even if they're smart enough to have high test scores, they typically have mediocre grades. They are outstanding at doing things they like; terrible at doing things that they find boring, which typically are academics. The top universities want the students who can take on major leadership while also maintaining high academics in whatever rigorous curriculum their school offers.</p>

<p>Most students spend far too much time obsessing over raising already high SAT scores a few more points that won't impress colleges that much. If the HPYS wannabes instead took the same amount of time pursuing their interests and passions with leadership and creativity, they'd be boosting their chances to get into the most competitive colleges. What those colleges want are students who'll be active participants taking strong leadership in the campus environment, not just drones studying in the library, and the way that the adcoms identify such potential students is by seeing what students have done with ECs, jobs and similar activities. </p>

<p>The colleges want to produce alum who eventually will be leaders in communities, nations, corporations, foundations, etc., not people who just do whatever they think will impress their bosses.</p>

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<p>"I don't have community service where I ran it or funded it. I helped at the doggone nursing home for Christ's sake."</p>

<p>There's nothing wrong with helping at a nursing home. That could stand out in admissions if one implemented some programs or did something that went beyond simply putting in hours and doing what you were told.</p>

<p>When one volunteers, there are always opportunities to do extra and one can find or make those opportunities if you care about what you're doing, look for ways to make an additional difference, and take the time to establish relationships with your supervisors so that they are willing to let you try out your own ideas. Doing this is difficult and requires vision, creativity and hard work, but those are the kind of leaders that places like HPYS want on their campus even though HPYS don't have room for everyone who does things like that.</p>

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<p>It makes me sick how "Eagle Scout" is ranked up there with creating your own bussiness that makes thousands of dollars, and all of those other mind blowingly amazing ECs. I've watched my brother go through Scouts, and sure, you've got to be in it for years, but the work he puts in? Pretty much none. Maybe he goes to boyscout camp. LOL. Obviously there are very involved scouts, but getting Eagle is just waiting it out. And the service projects they organize are usually pretty weak. Like I said, sure, there are cool ones. But, one Eagle Scout in my area made a bench to put outside the school! A bench! </p>

<p>I was in a leadership program that lasted a couple months, and I was able to pull off a project that had way more weight than most of the Eagle Scout deals I see. It's kinda sad, actually, how I see kids getting Eagle Scout at 13 and building a fence or some other piece of lame crap.</p>

1 Like
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<p>yeah eagle scout isn't really that prestigious anymore</p>

<p>i hope colleges start to see that</p>

<p>and i don't think it's fair either. the boy scouts discriminate against homosexuals.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom, where do you put the information about the level of your involvement in the application? Is it something that should somehow be put into an essay (even if it doesn't really seem to fit)? or should the applicant put it in the resume (which would lead to a wordy, probably 2 pager)? My S has some pretty good ec's, but doesn't really know where to describe them beyond a seemingly non-descript volunteer position.</p>

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<p>Remember, the list represents my thoughts, and I'm not an adcom, just an alum interviewer.</p>

<p>There actually is a list on the web somewhere that shows how a Calif. college weighed various ECs. This includes the standard ECs as well as "ECs" such as having to take care of siblings or having work to help one's family.</p>

<p>If anyone finds it, please post a link because I'm sure it would help many people.</p>

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<p>I have a job as an Intern at the US Dept of Education this summer....is that a good EC</p>

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<p>Here's a link to teens who won the 2006 Huggable Heroes contests for teens who do service projects. Most of the teens started projects themselves. All are nice ideas of how young people can make a difference and can also have some extraordinary ECs. <a href="http://www.buildabear.com/aboutUs/community/HuggableHeroes/2006HH.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.buildabear.com/aboutUs/community/HuggableHeroes/2006HH.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Some examples:
Matthew - New York </p>

<p>Matt volunteers for Puppies Behind Bars, an organization that trains inmates to raise guide dogs for the blind and explosive detection canines for Law Enforcement. He takes their pups into his home and exposes them to situations they cannot encounter in prison. Through a youth service-based organization, Matt also spearheaded a fundraising raffle for the benefit of Puppies Behind Bars. It raised over $1,000 for the cause. </p>

<p>Brittany - British Columbia
For the last 8 years, Britney has played an active role in her community by helping feed the less fortunate, volunteering at the police department and raising money for the Easter Seals Organization. Brittany recently created a Scholarship Seminar where she visits local secondary schools to help educate students about the many facets of scholarship applications and how the students can apply for such assistance</p>

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<p>Where would you put that information in the app?</p>

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<p>When I read the Chances threads and see the EC's, I think the biggest weakness is the lack of focus. I see kids that say they are interested in pre-med, but all thier EC's are in the field of math because there are a lot of math competitions. While this is still outstanding, I think a focused list of EC's that complement an applicants strength is important. EC's are what you do in your "free time" so getting involved in EC's that interest you would look good. </p>

<p>A trend that I see is that debate and writing competitions are looked highly upon as far as EC's go.</p>

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<p>Under "community service" in the essay, or in the activities area. It also could go under leadership or even in 2 or 3 sections, with different aspects highlighted in different areas.</p>

<p>For example under leadership: "Organized a campaign to raise $1,000 for...."
And also under "community service," the same person could write: "Spent 6 months housing and training dogs for ....."
That combined with a nice essay describing how one got interested in it or a challenge that one overcame in doing the project would be a nice way to show one's character and passion.</p>

<p>Where you put the activities isn't as important as how you describe what you did. The adcoms aren't grading you on filling the right slot. They just want to know what you've done and what you have to offer.</p>

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<p>Good info in this thread about describing ECs: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=82799%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=82799&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Thank you, thank you Northstarmom!</p>

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<p>Students - please chill about ECs. For the best colleges, it's not really a quantitative thing. In fact, my informed suspicion is that at the very best colleges, there is healthy disdain for the eager-beaver list-makers who try to show that they have joined (or in some cases led) every activity there is.</p>

<p>Not to say that true leadership, or achievement, or dedication is not valued - it certainly is. But, seriously folks, there are only so many hours in a day, and I don't think you're scoring any points with Harvard by showing that you're the world's greatest mindless multitasker. </p>

<p>I can assure you they'd rather have a kid who's focused and dedicated to something (almost anything, in fact); the swimmer above is a good case in point. I think kids can go awfully wrong when they jump on every "must do" EC bandwagon, because they have heard it's needed for top-college admissions. In fact, in recent years, there has been a backlash by jaded admissions officer - even though they may be responsible for stoking the notion that their preferred student is a squash-playing Mother Teresa with a 4.0, they are actually weary of reading essays entitled "How my summer in a mud hut in Bolivia taught me that all people are the same" Sorry to be so cynical, but I stand by my perceptions on this issue.</p>

<p>Again, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do any particular thing - it just means you shouldn't do it just to stack up more activities on your resume. Because, at some point, your motivation (or lack thereof) will become transparent, and the effect with be neligible, or even negative. So go do something you love, and quit trying to game the system. It's a good lesson for life.</p>

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<p>My point still stands, however, Northstarmon. In that because of these superstudents, we have thousands of kids who are perhaps just as qualified never even consider applying because they feel they can't get in.</p>

<p>Like I said, it's great, really, sometimes you make it seem like it's easy as hell just to be in an EC. </p>

<p>Just remember, for some of us, working 45 hours a week (I don't give a dam about your child labor laws, you tell that to the light company) and going to school, EC's kind are something that you wish you could do more of, but you just can't.</p>

<p>I'm not saying my scenario is what happens to everybody, but I mean, how the hell is a kid from my area suppose to feel competing against thousands of kids who look like they should be on the cover of some super kid magazine?</p>

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<p>Is a black belt in karate a good or great EC?</p>

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<p>For wtidad: What if we are involved in most activities at our school, but because we like them and want to help rather than "making a list." Is that really going to hurt me??</p>

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<p>"Just remember, for some of us, working 45 hours a week (I don't give a ...about your child labor laws, you tell that to the light company) and going to school, EC's kind are something that you wish you could do more of, but you just can't."</p>

<p>Apparently, you didn't realize that working 45 hours a week would count as a very strong EC. It particularly would have helped if you wrote your essay about your experience and included (if the college allowed) a supplemental recommendation from a work supervisor.</p>

<p>Of course, you'd also have to have excellent stats to get into a top college, too, and even with excellent stats and a 45 hour a week job, for space reasons (as is the case with all applicants), HPYS etc. still would be reaches.</p>

<p>ECs aren't just school clubs. Many activities that are not something like playing video games or going to classes at your regular school can count as an EC.</p>

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<p>No, I mean, I got into Yale. That wasn't the issue at hand.</p>

<p>The thing I'm fighting against and you still don't get is that we espouse the greatness of these superstudents so much that regular, high-achieving students who will never have the same opportunities are intimidated to apply because they say they face instant rejection.</p>

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<p>Congratulations on getting into Yale.</p>

<p>If "regular, high-achieving students" lack the confidence to apply, that's no loss because there's an overabundance of excellent, high-achieving students who do apply, and the Ivies are not places for people who lack self confidence.</p>