thought-provoking article: Why America needs the SAT

<p>I have to ask what is the probability that Someone's SAT section score was off by 40 or even 30 points? If there is a high chance then I have to agree with you ivyalumini but if the chances are low than I think that the statistical errors are too small to worry about.</p>

<p>wow, overANALyze much? dont you guys have jobs? i do and im 21, in fact im "working" right now.</p>

<p>The SAT is absolutely necessary!</p>

<p>I admit that there are problems with the test. If I were writing the test I might do it a little bit differently. However, the SAT is probably the only thing on the application that is completely fair for everybody.</p>

<p>Clearly, the SAT should not be the only factor for admission. However, it should be a major factor. GPA can be misleading - a lot depends on the school you go to, what classes you take - even just by getting certain teachers, the GPA can be skewed. Also, the SAT is a very good measure of natural ability. While GPA depends largely upon work ethic and discipline, the SAT tests inate ability. I can say this because from what I've seen, the kids who I think are truly the smartest do better on the SAT than those who just study a lot and have tutors.</p>

<p>The SAT thus helps level the playing field for all applicants. Somebody who doesn't have the advantages that come with attending a very good high school can still do well on the SAT.</p>

<p>It also is not subjective (other than maybe the essay). Everything else has a subjective component to it.</p>

<p>So, the SAT should continue to be a MAJOR factor for admission.</p>

<p>unless you guys want to do A-Levels like Britain, you should probably stick with SAT's</p>

<p>^^That remark is so funny for me because I took BOTH SAT and APs and A-Levels :) Trust me it can be done.</p>

<p>I think my last post stands, even after all these follow-ups: Balance SAT's with grades, and--in certain situations--with EC's and rec's. And that's already being done across the board! As U. Calif., Tufts and others drift from that, things will get WORSE, not better...</p>

<p>As an incoming freshman in Rice being raced in another country were my first language was spanish, I found the SAT descriminative. As a dual citizen, im presumed to be fluent but that was not the case. in fact, my english thinking was not at that level last year when i took the tests. I could not finish the SAT english sections fast enough and though left me with a relatively lower score than other people; it made me feel dumb even though i had always obtained A+ in all of my classes. based on my own experiences, i dont think that the SAT means anything at all. It undermines exogenous factors and presumes that everybody that takes it has this "standard" level of cognitive profficiency. I can speak perfectly and write in it but i cant read a passage in my head that fast and asnwer so many questions. this is the case with many people in my situation which i have spoken too before. The fact that SAT scores nowadays have been numeracly asscoiated with a level of intelligence is something i greatly object to for people to say you gotta get this amount to get into a school and all that. it becomes redundant and pointless. i will probably be made fun of by this post by some pontificating elitist who is an "SATphile". standardized testing should be reduced to things like the SAT two on specific subjects like science, english and different things that will show peoples skills in things. science is a universal language and as a result i did very well on the SAT2.</p>

<p>Well serge, maybe it is fair that the SAT is biased toward people who know english well, because it's difficult to succeed in college unless you can read and write english well, even if you plan to be a science major</p>

<p>I'm sorry serge but I have to agree with jimbob. I too live outside the country and many of my friends had the same problem as you did. One friend in particular who is one of the brightest people I've ever met but who just couldn't get a high SATV mark. However even he agreed that the exam wasn't discriminatory against them its just that his english wasn't quite as good as his other subjects. The same thing would have been the case in any other exam which tres to measure english.</p>

<p>again dude like a said, it has nothing to do with speaking or writing because im doing that here. it is the sections that rely on timing. my ability to read and answeres question is just like anybody elses. it is the time it takes me to "translate" in my head that creates the lag. the sat is not just taken in the US, it is taken in many other places. therefore it shouldnt be discriminating like that or it should be adapted. discrimination is never fair and im not some idealist either. im just trying to point out the reality of the sitation.</p>

<p>Yes serge but timing is almost as important as the original ability itself especially in the SAT. If they increased the time for the math section for example the percentage of people who would get 800 would dramatically increase. Same would go for the verbal section. Really no one thinks that the SATV tests intelligence but instead it measures students aptitude in english.</p>

<p>oh that makes sense, i'm sorry. yeah i agree... in college you do have basically unlimited time, but you can't measure something like that in a test that is required to be timed.</p>

<p>people seem to be confusing my argument. the math section wouldnt need to be increased in time because math is universal, therefore the tester wouldnt be trying to figure out some sort of arcane language. with the english test, it is different which is why that part should be taken out or modified. dont look at me for answers on how to do it, im only highlighting a problem which people in my situation encounter. it is one thing what it is supposed to test than what it has come to represent which is why im pointing it out. Im tired of looking at this "can i get in threads" and seeing people answer like no way you cant get in, you need a higher SAT score. all this things kill peoples dreams with something like the number. im not a bitter person and i got into my dream college and the rice/baylor program but i had to highlight many other thigns about myself. my point is that there is a fault in the SAT.</p>

<p>Serge, English is a weird and difficult language to learn - but for native speakers, the SAT is a good measure. For bright non-native speakers like yourself, it may not be a good measure of ability and intelligence. English is just not logical!

[quote]
being raced in another country

[/quote]
What you wrote sounds correct - but isn't. "Raised" is the correct word to use there.... English is a bizarre language!</p>

<p>Ohh serge if that's your point I highly highly doubt you will ever find anyone who will argue with you. Almost everybody agrees that the SAT is flawed but really how can it be fixed?</p>

<p>haha anxious mom, yea its a typo im aware the verb is is raised not "race" like a marathon lol. anyways, like i said, im not attacking the sat as a whole for native speakers, im just saying that it is not good for people in my situation and there should be an sat for non native speakers with a different arrangement in the english section. superwizard, there is always a way where there is a will. to just say "c'est la vie" is not the way to go especially nowadays when universities want to attract diversity.</p>

<p>Ah but serge non native speakers of the SAT take the TOEFL which colleges use instead of the SATV. Isn't that the case where you live?</p>

<p>the TOEFL is different. it doesnt acess what im saying. its for people that are not that profficient in the language and is associated with the lack of citizenship which isnt my case. i think perhaps what im trying to say is hard to get across or maybe i just cant express it well.</p>

<p>Nonono serge I get exactly what you mean mainly because I'm in exactly the same position as you. I'm a bilingual american who lives outside the country so I know exactly what you mean. However the number of people in this situation is pretty small. No one said the SAT was completely fair but really the chances that collegeboard would take the time to create a diffferent version of the SAT for such people is very very small and unrealalistic.</p>

<p>your right i guess i cant expect it to change for the few.</p>