Except for Notre Dame, Catholic schools are not great in football.
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There are a lot of excellent Catholic Division 3 football teams. MN has both St John’s and St Thomas for example. Their game this fall broke the D3 football attendance record (one they set back in 2010) when over 17,000 were at St John’s. It’s not ND/BC, but they’re both usually ranked and it’s a great rivalry most years.
Germane to the topic at hand, SJU is a Benedictine school with a strong feel of their hospitality/community ethos. A very good school and a wonderful place to spend four years.
Check out Fordham, Georgetown and Boston College . . . social? energetic? athletic? if your DD/DSB+ is comfortable with beer, he/she will fit right in. (4th gen. Jesuit educated )
@Zobroward Sorry bub, even Yale has admitted that the Jesuit education is superior to the education offered at Protestant Yale. Religion and education sure do mix, and what Notre Dame, Boston College, Santa Clara teach has been documented even by Yale professors as being superior.
Any thoughts on Seattle U? It’s currently sitting pretty high on my daughter’s list (app went in for EA a couple weeks ago). She’s a big Georgetown fan, but it’s a bit of reach (for most). We’re Jewish (pretty secular), but the Jesuit schools seem to have a nice feel to them.
It doesn’t really matter whether it is Jesuit or any of the other main stream orders, a Jewish student should not have any issues going to a Catholic college.
She will presumably have to take some theology, philosophy or ethics, but the choices are rather generic nowadays.
They tend to be on the preppy side at least here on the east coast.
@arc918 - where are you from? We visited Seattle U and had one accepted that chose elsewhere, but am really familiar with Seattle. The U is small but is in one of the greatest cities, especially for young people. Seattle is hip, clean, and healthy with just enough edge to it to keep it interesting but not feel sketchy. Public transit downtown is amazing. Scenery and setting obviously beautiful. Lots of little theaters, clubs, and eateries tucked in everywhere, so they can get out and experience a rich urban life as much as they want. Seattle U is small and has a large nursing base and great connections to hospitals there for those in nursing or med type fields, but seems to offer most majors. I would not at all be concerned about being Jewish there or at any west coast Jesuit school. Most people on the west coast are more uncomfortable with a lack of diversity in their travels, out here we are a pretty accepting bunch. Of course, not everyone, but in general. We are not catholic but sent kids to Jesuit and Catholic high schools after public schools for lower grades. Jesuits are a giving bunch, and as a friend said to me once, “Say what you want about Jesuits, but they sure know how to educate.” Have one at SCU (Jesuit) who is over the moon happy, she went into engineering with a 4.6 and sky rocket scores and had lots of other great offers all over the country. They really do care about the whole person and my daughter is getting an unbelievable experience and education - knows her professors already, it’s a mature environment, not a lot of riff raff going on if you choose not to seek it out. Would expect SU to be similiar. On a side note and I think funny story, the most popular teacher at my student’s catholic high school happened to be an atheist. Seriously, and this teacher is more involved in ECs/Clubs assemblies than anybody and is loved by all the administration. Everyone is welcome in Jesuit Land. If the school overall is a fit (size, location, major, costs) being Jewish wouldn’t be a concern there, imo.
For other non-Catholics reading this thread, Jesuits have no special sauce in terms of education or social tolerance and no Catholic would categorically say Jesuits are more liberal. Moreover, Catholics hardly speak of orders and I doubt they even know the order of their parish priest.
Historically, Jesuits were not the first educators, LaSallian Brothers were, rather they were the most aggressive proselytizers. They however were the most social, whereas other orders were more reclusive.
The liberal myth probably comes from the fact that Jesuit priests dress in public very plainly, whereas friars and monks seen on other college campuses where robes, a symbol of poverty. The robes are not a symbol of conservative Catholicism. Franciscans are the hippies of the Church, a curious mix of Catholic with a dash of Buddhist.
If Jesuit schools appear less Catholic to certain people it is probably because their expectations are influenced by hearsay. I can see how seeing a Franciscan friar or Benedictine monk in a brown or black robe can influence one’s perception.
Side note, Franciscans involved women in the order hierarchy very early, whereas other orders took the most conservative view on the role of women. Many Catholics would consider Franciscans the most liberal on most social issues.
As a Catholic, I am very aware of orders. And most orders have something they specialize in. Jesuits have a long, storied history as educators. That’s not to say other orders don’t have excellent offerings in education - but it is the Jesuit’s “thing”.
And the Jesuits ARE considered to be the most liberal - just take a look at our current Pope And look at the history of the order - they’ve been renegades for centuries.
Franciscans are more earth-crunchy, but they also have their conservative base - if you don’t believe that, check out the Franciscan University of Steubenville. Many more liberal Catholics would feel uncomfortable there, non-Catholics even more so.
Oh, and not every parish priest is a member of a particular order. Some are diocesan priests. My current and most recent parish have been staffed by Franciscans, and I’m pretty sure everyone in our parish knows that.
Steubenville is the Franciscan Third Order. I am referring to the much larger order of OFM, Order of Friars Minor, which are considered very liberal.
Regardless, outside of the hardcore Cardinal Newman List, Catholic colleges are essentially secular institutions apart from visible symbols.
I don’t dispute that Jesuits in the US are liberal, but you probably know this is fairly recent and not the case in other parts of the world. I honestly don’t see them as more liberal yet that is the common myth.
To many non-Catholics the relative lack of symbolism drives the myth, and its perfectly understandable.
In the 1960’s my parents’ lawyer was a Jewish alum of Boston College Law School. He did his undergrad at Harvard and was rejected by Harvard and Boston University law schools. He later became an active member of the BC Law Alumni Association. And this was back in the olden days.
I agree there are a few that are very religious and non Catholics may not feel comfortable (although would be welcomed) like Ave Maria, Franciscan, even Notre Dame, and there are others that have more non-catholics than catholics, but I do not know of ONE catholic university that is secular or run separately from any order or dioceses. All have some religious staff, faculty, or administrators. All have masses and other religious rites and all have rules and regulations (whether they are followed or not) that reflect that they ARE Catholic universities. Non catholics will not be able to be married in the chapel (or cathedral at some schools). Single sex marriage will not be recognized (for things like married student housing). Abortions will not be available in the health facilities. In most cases, birth control will not be available on campus
I have a Jewish friend who would not consider teaching at a catholic university, and would not send her children to one, even the Jesuit school in our town. I think she is correct that no matter how liberal, how accepting, how non-religious the schools are, they are still catholic schools and she wouldn’t feel comfortable. She’d be welcomed, but she wouldn’t feel comfortable.
Within the last few years, Boston College decided to install a crucifix in every classroom. That is certainly well within their right and mission as a Catholic college, but it did upset some Jewish professors (and quite possibly others) who had taught there for years without such symbols in the classroom.
The point isn’t that Catholic institutions don’t have a right to be overtly Catholic in all ways, but that it is equally true that many non-Catholic students might quite reasonably feel uncomfortable with that.
@twoinanddone Notre Dame? Seriously? Do ND’s parietals make it oppressively Catholic?
My exact choice of phrase “essentially secular institutions apart from visible symbols” means Catholic doctrine is not a focus of the curriculum. I stand by that. You mentioned several schools and I agree with you. I am talking about ND, BC, Holy Cross, Providence, Villanova, Siena, St. Michael’s, St. Anselm. Bonaventure, Scranton, Fordham, Manhattan, Nazareth, Le Moyne, Canisius, Assumption, etc.
I never said they were absolutely secular.
I would like to hear from a non-Catholic that went to ND and found it oppressive. I doubt you will find one.
Why would a non-Catholic even consider marriage in a Catholic church? Do Catholic schools prevent students from buying contraception off campus? Is same sex marriage accepted by Judaism?
Another vote for UScranton. My D visited many Catholic schools, it seemed that most of her “safety” list somehow ended up in this category ~ St. Michaels, Providence, UScranton, etc. UScranton moved near the top of her list of choices in hopes that the merit aid would make it affordable. It did not Both St. Michaels and Providence awarded good finaid but not enough again. That being said, we both really liked UScranton, their science department, and their offerings. It was the only school that offered a Forensics Chem major, and they also have internships with the FBI.
"Spectrum is St. Bonaventure University’s LGBTA (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and ally) alliance.
Spectrum regularly meets on campus in order to support LGBT students, promote acceptance of all LGBTA individuals and raise awareness of issues facing LGBTA individuals. Spectrum is part of the Damietta Center and Pride U, an association of gay-straight alliances in Western New York.
Spectrum hosts various events throughout the school year to educate the campus community about LGBT topics such as coming out, community acceptance, and health and wellness concerns.
The club also provides peer support to LGBT students. In the past, Spectrum has organized and participated in Day of Silence and Coming Out Week events, open forums, discussions about current events and Rathskeller parties.
Through all of its activities, Spectrum honors the Catholic-Franciscan tradition by advocating for respect of the dignity of all people.
We encourage interested students to join Spectrum. Whether you identify as LGBT or you are a straight ally, we appreciate everyone’s interest and involvement. Members can hang out at club meetings or help plan events, lead discussions and move into leadership positions based on their levels of interest and participation.
All members of this club are treated with respect regardless of their gender, gender identity or sexual orientation."
Yes, Note Dame is really catholic, and I don’t think anyone would consider it secular. 80% of the students are catholic, there is a priest living in almost every dorm and there is a Mass in those dorms daily. There is Touchdown Jesus looking at you from above. Here on CC there was a poster just a few months ago who wanted to transfer because he didn’t like how religious it was, didn’t realize it would feel so religious. I’d imagine that there would be few non catholic grads who would find ND oppressive because they didn’t go there in the first place or transferred. Why would you go to a school you felt was oppressive.
I’m not saying that Catholic universities aren’t welcoming to students of all faiths, just that the schools ARE catholic and those who aren’t catholic have to adjust as the school is not going to do the adjusting. A non- Catholic wouldnt want a Catholic marriage, but many people want to get married in the church or chapel on campus because they are beautiful venues. If you are a ND grad and want to get married on campus by your favorite teacher who happens to be a Catholic priest, it isn’t going to happen in the Chapel, and most likely not on campus. My sister was married in a chapel on her campus (I think it was a Methodist chapel) by a Catholic priest. Allowed by the college. The opposite wouldnt be allowed, a methodist ceremony in a catholic chapel/church/cathedral on a catholic university campus, and certainly not a gay mariage, catholic or not. Yes, there are LGBT groups, but their activities must stay within the rules of the university, one of which may be that non-recognized married couples can’t have married student housing, can’t have a commitment ceremony or marrange in the chapel.
Anyone, catholic or not, has to consider whether HE’D feel included at a Catholic school. I’d guess that many who don’t want to to follow the rules at ND don’t apply. My Jewish friend would not apply, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t Jews who attend who are perfectly happy, who ask for and receive permission to miss class to celebrate Yom Kipper, who work within the system to make the school work for them. Those students are not excused from other scholarship requirements and can’t expect classes not to be held on Jewish holidays, or remove the crucifixes. The student might ask for special food or class times to particulate in his own religious rites, and as long as those weren’t against the Catholic teachings, I’m sure the request would be honored. My kids, raised catholic, would feel comfortable at any catholic university, would ignore many ‘benefits’ like daily mass, but really wouldn’t like the atmosphere at Ave Maria or Franciscan. One would be fine at BYU or Brandeis (and actually enjoy the religious and cultural differences), the other would not.
I think it is a mistake to say that a Catholic university is secular, even in the teaching and course offerings. Go to the website of any of the schools you listed and all will state they are a university in the Catholic/Jesuit/LaSalle tradition. The missions will include a reference to a Catholic education. Many of the presidents will be priests. Will a non catholic be welcomed? Absolutely. Will he FEEL welcomed? Up to the student.
My D is a non-Catholic who goes to Notre Dame and doesn’t find it oppressive in the least. She even goes to mass sometimes because of the community feeling that can be found there, and is welcomed. It has been a great experience for her thus far.
Absolutely, but the suggestion was made that everyone feels (or would feel) comfortable at ND because there are few alums who felt it was ‘oppressive.’ Are there a lot of grads from any school who felt oppressed at those schools? I hope not. The student on the hunger strike at Missouri has been there for 7+ years - has he felt oppressed that whole time?
The poster on CC from earlier this semester said ND was too religious, not what he expected. Maybe someone had told him it was just like a secular school and not religious at all, so he expected something other than priests and theology and all the religion that is there.
My DD graduated from Santa Clara University which is Jesuit. There was a Jesuit living in every dorm. She isn’t Catholic, and neither are we. There is a huge cross in a garden area when you enter the campus. Many campus meetings are held in the gorgeous chapel whic is large enough to accommodate a big crowd. There was a prayer by a Jesuit at graduation…and at most events. Three religion courses are required.
Did my kid feel out of place? Not at all.
The Jesuit education and community service mission was exactly what our kid was seeking in a college.
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And look at the history of the order - they’ve been renegades for centuries.
Both St. Michaels and Providence awarded good finaid but not enough again. That being said, we both really liked UScranton, their science department, and their offerings. It was the only school that offered a Forensics Chem major, and they also have internships with the FBI.