thoughts about harvard after: Harvard Pres.: women so-so scientist

<p>He sort of loses his way partway through the article. In fact, I sort of skipped a few paragraphs because he wasn't making any sense, but I feel the bulk of the article is well though out and supported. I've read numerous places that males tend to score toward the extremes while females tend toward the center.</p>

<p>entropicgirl, you got me on a technicality, and I'm sorry for any offense (real or joke). Perhaps I should have gone with...historically subjugated subpopulation? :)</p>

<p>itsallgood-You ought to read The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker. It does a rather fantastic job of shooting down the idea that everything is a result of "socialization" and "discrimination."</p>

<p>One, as the law profession proves every day, opposite sides of each issue can be argued very convincingly.</p>

<p>Two, people hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe.</p>

<p>Three, there is no truth outside the gates of Heaven</p>

<p>Three, there are no truths outside the gates of Eden</p>

<p><a href="http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f2c97622-6dad-11d9-ae0d-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=,s01=2.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f2c97622-6dad-11d9-ae0d-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=,s01=2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In my high school, the number of boys and girls who are at the very, very top in math and science is about equal. I know this because the top kids in AP Physics, AP Calc and AP Chem talk among themselves, usually bragging about their successes. We all know each other's SAT scores too. </p>

<p>In my limited experience, in my little upper middle class corner of the world, I just don't see evidence of inate differences. Why? I figure it's because parents in our community--mostly college educated, many professional-- have the same high expectations for their female children, as they have for the males. </p>

<p>It's just my opinion but...</p>

<p>If mom and dad and teachers and friends buy-in to the "girl's are inately weaker in math and science" theory, you can bet there will be fewer high performing women because of the low expectations. </p>

<p>Raise expectations and you will raise performance. </p>

<p>I just saw a little news clip that says the performance of Japanese girls in high school math is equal to or better than Japanese males. Hmmm. What does that mean?</p>

<p>If my parents would tell me that I wasn't good at math, I'd work twice as hard and prove them wrong. I fail to see why that would cause me to not do good in math.</p>

<p>It might sort of dull your excitement about it if your parents were always expecting you not to do well. It's like they've already decided it and there's nothing you can do about it. This does actually happen, and I don't know why parents would say things like that to their kids. They're there for support.</p>

<p>Byerly, excellent point. I highly recommend Allan Bloom's seminal book, "The Closing of the American Point," which directly addresses your point. Bloom was a renowned intellectual at the University of Chicago who spent most of his career chronicling this end of true scholarly openness and liberality and descent into relativism and organized hypocrisy. From from polemical, the book is well reasoned and calm. I recommend it to all!</p>

<p>Itsallgood, it's a pretty well known fact that there are some innate differences that make Asians better at math. ;)</p>

<p>Yes, I have read the Bloom book, and find its assessment disturbing and depressing, although prescient given the phony hysteria that has broken out in the recent case.</p>

<p>Here is a new column from London's Sunday Times, that hits the nail on the head.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-1452225,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-1452225,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Itsallgood-Wow. Summers, Pinker, et al. really had me convinced that there was a chance that men and women could be innately different. But your example of the scientifically proven equality in achievement at your high school has completely changed my mind. What holds true for a sample size of, what, 30 or 40 high achieving students must be true for all of humanity, right?</p>

<p>Play nice, just<em>forget</em>me. She said "in her limited experience."</p>

<p>I guess I was harsh... but anecdotal "evidence" is a major pet peeve of mine.</p>

<p>It does show how her personal opinion is formed. I tend to lend some credence to his hypothesis because the people best at math and science at my school are male. It's a somewhat important background factor.</p>

<p>Don't these facts give you pause in your assumptions about women and their capabilities?</p>

<p>No...because he wasn't saying that women can't be mathematicians, chemists, or MDs. He was suggesting, as a hypothesis, that there are innate differences meaning that the very top men will be better, to a degree, than the very top women. Or there will simply be more men at the very top than women. I believe I used the number example earlier. Rating chemists, physicists, etc on a scale of 1-100, there may only be men at the 100 end, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of women 75s that make excellent scientists and mathematicians.</p>

<p>By the way, ancedotal evidence, or some other incidental observation, often is the precursor to major studies. An hypothesis is formed and then its confirmed or not by further research.</p>

<p>Just because a book or a study or a lot of people say or believe something, doesn't make it a fact.</p>

<p>Studies indicated VIOXX was perfectly safe. Do scientists fudge data and hide contrary evidence? No!</p>

<p>A couple of years ago, a few (male) physicists proved "cold fusion"</p>

<p>We've been told for years, over and over, that Social Security was in trouble, but now many claim there's no trouble at all. And they all have FACTS to prove their point.</p>

<p>We were supposed to run out of oil 30 years ago. Oh boy, I bet there was a lot of math and analysis proving that one.</p>

<p>Blacks just didn't have the aptitude or skills to be quarterbacks or baseball managers. That would have to be true...after all there were none at the time. Proof positive.</p>

<p>Women shouldn't be allowed to vote, it will overtax their mental capacity. Well maybe this one is true--women voted overwhelming for Bill Clinton and George Bush. Yikes.</p>

<p>Asian are the inherently strongest at math (and growing Bonsai trees). Maybe it has something to do with their families pushing them to achieve, but I could be wrong.</p>

<p>There's that old saying:</p>

<p>Liars figure, and figures lie.</p>