Thoughts about the whole "Second Tier Uprising" in New York Times

<p>I was just reading an article regarding the decline of admissions rates at "second tier" colleges.....it states that more qualified students are being placed on waiting lists, rather than being accepted, due to the surge in applicants. Though this "surge" may partially come from a greater number of college bound individuals, it is more probable that it is because people are just applying to more places. YET, accepted students can ultimately only choose one school. My question is, will this situation change the meaning of "the wait list?" Will there be greater hope for those placed on waiting lists, since a student accepted at 10 top schools will ultimately decline 9 of the seats? Or, do colleges accept more than they can accommodate, because they know some students will decline? What do you think...will the notorious "wait listed" letter become a sign of greater hope?? </p>

<p><a href="http://reference.aol.com/article/_a/ivy-league-crunch-brings-new-cachet-to/20070516100909990001%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://reference.aol.com/article/_a/ivy-league-crunch-brings-new-cachet-to/20070516100909990001&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>lol...I just realized that the term "uprising" doesn't really apply here...oh well.</p>

<p>As for the "uprising", the NY Times runs an article with this same theme about every other spring. The last one focused on some kid from Scarsdale who seemed to be Harvard material and ended up at Middlebury.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The last one focused on some kid from Scarsdale who seemed to be Harvard material and ended up at Middlebury.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>OH GOD HIS LIFE IS OVER! That's funny they focus on something like that when I know a kid (sure many do) that turned down Harvard for a relatively unknown LAC (Denison).</p>

<p>Choosing Denison over Harvard seems like an incredibly bad move to me. I hope it was for financial reasons. If a kid is Harvard material and wants a LAC he should have gone to Amherst, Williams, or even Dartmouth. I cannot imagine what Denison offers that would seduce someone away from Harvard or any of the other top schools.</p>

<p>slipper i can think of a few: financial aid; maybe wants to stay in the midwest; maybe can be on varsity sport at denison; etc.</p>

<p>why should i buy the $200 jeans when i'm happy with the $20 pair?</p>

<p>Slipper, please broaden your perspective. Here's the million-th anecdote about a successful non-Ivy grad. One of the most important lawyers at a firm that I am familiar with, one of the largest law firms on the west coast and one of the most respected, is a Dennison grad. He's a leading partner. Interestingly, the firm also includes a Harvard graduate, whom is not considered a rainmaker.</p>

<p>He received a full ride for all four years compared to nothing from Harvard. It is relevant though to mention that his dad (rich) offered to pay for 2 years and he'd have to take out loans for the other two...I would've chosen H too.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Choosing Denison over Harvard seems like an incredibly bad move to me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How incredibly lame. </p>

<p>I know very little about Denison other than it's a solid school, but I do know that it's probably better than even odds the person gets out of Denison with a better education. And certainly the person is much more likely to be happy than a kid at Harvard who went only 'cause that's what lame people who think there is just one right answer do.</p>

<p>Not true at all. I know Denison very well and its not a top LAC at all. If someone could get into Harvard and wanted a LAC (which I think is a good thought), why wouldn't they go to a place like Amherst or Pomona? </p>

<p>90% of a college education is gained from hanging out with the students around you. They set the bar for your own standards, they are intellectually challenging you, and they are arguably your strongest network for life. Denison, while a good school, will not provide near the educational experience of a top LAC. </p>

<p>This has nothing to do with "prestige" or the "name of a school and has everything to do with the experience one gets during the formative years of their life.</p>

<p>These schools have always attracted really great students. Maybe it's newsworthy that a new subset of super-driven students is now willing to 'settle' for these non-ivy LACs, but I'm not convinced. It's not like these kids are going to raise the student bodies to unseen-before heights of quality and accomplishment--they're not terribly different from students who have always attended (some of them by cheerful choice).</p>

<p>Oh slipper, you just sound like a big snob. Sorry, but read your words. Some people are not able to afford a $45,000/yr school. Guess what, they aren't necessarily lame idiots. Lots of well educated and intelligent people, and with very positive "experiences in their formative years" come out of LACs the "level" of Denison.</p>

<p>One of my friends narrowed down his college choices to Wesleyan and Denison (actually applied to Harvard and didn't get in, like me). Ultimately he chose Denison because they gave him a full ride whereas he and his parents would have had to pay fully for Wesleyan and would have ended up mired in loans. Overall he seems pretty happy there. He is tops in his chem classes and he's done research with a prof both freshman and sophomore summer (and plans to do it again this year) - an opportunity that he wouldn't have, or would at least be harder to come by, at other places. However, he feels jealous of my friend and I who went to Princeton and Dartmouth and he's come to regret, at least partially, his choice. He's told me about how he hates the fact that there are very few people in the school that he feels he could have an intelligent conversation with, that most of the other students are blind Bush supporters who can't even explain the reasons for their choice, and that he doesn't feel challenged in his classes. So I guess you could say it's been a mixed bag.</p>

<p>A friend of my son several years ago was an outstanding math student who was accepted at MIT. Instead he went to Denison on a full scholarship where he was mentored by the math faculty and won a fellowship for a prestigious grad school. At the time I heard about turning down MIT it seemed foolish. In retrospect he saved at least $120,000 and may have come out ahead of where he would have been at MIT where he would have been just another great math student.</p>

<p>In fact, Time Magazine ran a similar but much more in-depth article back in August 2006 entitled "Who Needs Harvard". <a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1226150,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1226150,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It's a really good read, particularly for those overly focused on HYPSM as I was at that time. It really opened my eyes to the other alternatives out there... (My D will be attending Pomona this fall).</p>

<p>Hey Brand, What kind of "rich" father would tell his son to take out loans for tens of thousands of dollars if he wants to go to Harvard. If that kid worked hard enough to be accepted at Harvard, the father should bend over backwards to help pay. Most of us parents would do what we had to to help our kids through college. What good does it do you to be "rich" if you won't use your money to help give your kid an advantage that he earned? I hope the kid enjoys Denison. He deserves to be happy.</p>

<p>Here's a link to a thread that discusses the OP's question. I wouldn't put too much stock in the small sample discussed in the article, but it doesn't seem that there are huge changes in wait list patterns--some schools, in fact, are not going to their wait lists at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Admitting no students from their wait lists: Stanford University, University of Chicago, Amherst College</p>

<p>• Accepting fewer wait-listed students than last year: University of Delaware, University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>• Accepting more than last year: Princeton University

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=345749%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=345749&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Newzbugg - I think you'll find that's unfortunately not always the case. I don't know the kid's personal situation but do know that his family is rather wealthy - either way, 80k is 80k. His father may have been wanting his son to know the value of a dollar, and it looks like it worked but maybe backfired too.</p>

<p>While I do agree to some extent with slipper's concept of going to school to be challenged/inspired by your classmates, it seems that Dartmouth level people going to Denison caliber schools do pretty well enough of the time that it's hard to argue with someone who's inclined to do so.</p>

<p>Someone who got into Dartmouth would probably be the best student (or one of them) at Dennison...no suprise he was such a standout</p>

<p>Never heard of Dennison until now btw.</p>