I am no jazz expert. But other parentso maybe can suggest other regional camps?
@GoForth, from my perspective, a “top” jazz program is one that has an excellent and deep jazz faculty, preferably comprised of jazz musicians who also perform professionally on a regular basis, and that attracts the most talented young student musicians so that you always have great people to play with. In your other thread, I gave you my view, based on my son’s search, of some schools with particularly strong jazz programs. If you wanted to narrow it further and make a “top ten” list for jazz, I think most people would agree that Juilliard, NEC, Manhattan School, Berklee, Eastman and New School would belong in the top ten (though I’m sure you could find someone who would take issue with one or more of these). I’d probably round out the list with UNT, Oberlin, Miami/Frost and USC/Thornton, but I’m pretty sure you’d get advocates for several others, including McGill, Northwestern, Michigan, NYU-Steinhardt, Indiana-Jacobs, Ithaca, etc.
And there may be a number of other factors that go into choosing the right place for any given student. For example, I think location can be important for a jazz musician (moreso than for a classical musician), because in the right location, a good jazz musician can find a wide array of performing opportunities outside of school, which can be very helpful to his/her musical development. New York is probably jazz mecca, but there are other major cities where there is a pretty good jazz scene, such as Boston, Chicago, Montreal and New Orleans. As good a program as UNT has, I don’t think Dallas offers the same kind of jazz scene as these cities (and UNT is a bit outside of Dallas in any event).
Also, my son’s experience would suggest that, in the right location, you can find a path to pursue jazz at a serious level even if you’re not in a music school or conservatory program. My son turned down some excellent conservatory programs (including four schools that are in my “top ten” list) to go to Columbia. Columbia does have a strong jazz program itself for a non-conservatory, but it doesn’t have the breadth and depth that you’d find at a top music school or conservatory. What made it a viable path for my son was the combination of some good resources within the school and the fact that it was located in New York, where he can and does play regularly with students from Manhattan School (a few blocks away from Columbia), Juilliard, New School and NYU, as well as with other groups and professional musicians in the city. He’s also been able to get top level instruction, both from the adjunct faculty in jazz performance at Columbia and from teachers outside the school. I think his music work has been every bit as intense and productive as it would have been at a conservatory, and he’s also loved the academic side of being at Columbia. I offer up the experience not to say it’s necessarily the right one to follow, but only to make the point that there are many paths to consider and that you and your son should keep an open mind as you explore.
I also think going to some good jazz programs over the summer is a great way for your son to meet other high school jazz musicians who are as passionate about their music as your son is, and to compare notes on their experiences and thoughts about colleges and conservatories. And to check out some colleges and conservatories directly - such as UNT, Berklee or Eastman - that sponsor summer high school jazz programs. Other good summer high school jazz programs I’m aware of include Stanford Jazz Institute, Skidmore, Litchfield and Jazz Port Townsend. And, if you’re good enough, the Brubeck Institute, but that’s extremely competitive.
Best of luck to you and your son in his journey. And let me add one last observation to an already too long post. This forum is a good resource - and I agree with @glassharmonica that I’m impressed by how much you’ve read. But it’s also important to “go forth” and get some direct experience. Everyone here (including me) sees things through the prism of their own and their children’s experiences. While it’s useful to seek and get guidance and advice here, ultimately you and your son will have to make your own choices about what’s right for him.
I sense your strong support for your son. However, I would go a little further than SpiritManager and caution that one should be careful about trying to plan out our children’s future. Your son is only a sophomore. I saw my own sons change quite a bit between sophomore and senior years, and then again through the college years. As much as we want to be a part of everything, it should really be your son’s decision about where to go to college, what he feels is the right place for him, and even to choose what his career and future aspirations will be. It seems your heart is in the right place, but in the end, the plans need to be his.
@Clarimom - yes. If my hands were on the steering wheel, he would be a STEM student. I could help him find work and advise deeply on technical and business matters. Instead, I just occasionally check to see what is on his mind, and then I scout out that area and report back what I see. If he changes his mind, at least he had the most information we were able to collect up to that time. Some of his school teachers/classmates are confused why he doesn’t pursue STEM, the “obvious” choice. He says he has no interest and can’t see doing anything other than music. I mention STEM people who do music on the side, but also concede that the day job may take away time to allow the music career to flourish.
@jazzpianodad - “Also, my son’s experience would suggest that, in the right location, you can find a path to pursue jazz at a serious level even if you’re not in a music school or conservatory program.”
This is very interesting. It relates to some philosophizing S and I were doing - is college a link in a chain of events that he is waiting on to lead to him being a professional musician, OR is he a working musician right now, and he will decide to use college as a tool to increase his business.
I don’t know if you ran into this link, but you might like to read it: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html There are many paths to follow for music.
Your son can do a BM at a conservatory or music school, a BA at a college w/music as a major or with something else as a major (but still doing music both in and out of school), a double major or a double degree. Not sure what you mean by using college “as a tool to increase his business”, but if he has other academic interests, he can follow them as electives, a minor or a major. It is true that some of the most talented musicians I know didn’t even major in music but pursued something like English, with private study in their instrument combined with performance in extracurrulars or even on tours of their own. Of course, these individuals are extraordinary in the literal sense of the term.
There are many intersections of technology and music these days. UNT has great electronics/music technology for composers (that’s all I know about). Look at the Brown University music dept. website and read about their “music and technology” strand for music majors, or their MEME program. Dartmouth has a grad digital arts program. Kmcmom knows a lot about this area (MIchigan’s PAT program). Maybe your son would enjoy doing a summer program in this area. Oberlin perhaps. Berkeley used to have one. Others can suggest more.
Our kids’ lives zig and zag and we have to go with it to some extent. I’ll give you a non-music example. My youngest is a dancer and I spent many years driving her to class, rehearsal and performance. I always assumed she would want to go to conservatory or even a non-degree training program. She attended an LAC for a year and did a lot of dance but came to feel she wanted to do some other things, mainly in the area of health/healing. She left the LAC and did a certificate program, yoga teacher training, Reiki, a few other things. Then, surprise, she went back to dancing with a company while attending school. Now she is trying to integrate healing/psychology/counseling with movement therapy including both dance and yoga. This whole process is over several years. There was one entire year when she waitressed and nothing else. She is better off for it.
I had to make sure along the way that her life was geared to the present, not the future, despite the demands of dance. I had to make sure I myself was not invested in her path, and was relieved to find that I was absolutely fine when she quit dance for a few years. I marvel at what one person termed her “wise wandering” which i had absolutely nothing to do with other than my loving presence 
It is a tricky balance to help locate teachers and programs while also maintaining detachment so that our kids own their path. I don’t think reading years of CC is really necessary in guiding your son, because we will welcome your fresh questions even if they repeat previous issues. I think that helping him find new experiences that teach and inspire is very important. Otherwise, step back and let him roll!
I thought my musician daughter was headed for conservatory but in senior year she applied to both conservatory and college, and after she took the entire month of April to decide, she ended up at a college. Kids change even during senior year so I could not have predicted her choice. Nor could I have predicted grad school. Let your son surprise you!!
I really think you can relax more and enjoy the ride. Not saying you are not relaxed: I am an information-gatherer like you so I understand. But honestly, believe me, things WILL work out and your son will end up where he ends up. Let him own it , let him wander a bit, but make sure the soil stays rich for him…
Check out NEC’s summer jazz lab! It’s only a week but I hear great things about it.
Our son really enjoyed it last summer
Amen to the caution about locking in a plan for a sophomore! Neither one of my kids will end up in college studying what they thought they were going to as a sophomore. One went from electric rock guitar to composition/classical guitar, the other went from vocal performance to art!
This forum has been HUGELY valuable to me for both kids. Not least of which is, I actually met another mom here whose son ended up at the same school as mine and we are all friends now! It also became clear to me from studying the VP threads that my D had neither the voice nor the drive to be a VP major, and she was able to switch to art her junior year and now has been accepted at several top art schools with scholarships. I wish the Visual Arts forum was as active and informative as this one!
HI,
Coming a bit late to this discussion but I have a Jazz Bass player who is now a Junior. He always loved music but did not start studying it seriously until he was 13. He was very lucky to have some amazing mentors when he was your son’s age. One of those mentors teaches at Berklee and in the NEC Prep program. He is a great guy who had a lot of wise advice for me as a parent of a teen gradually deciding to pursue music as a career. I went back and searched for his email he wrote me when I asked him, "Is it crazy? Does my son have what it takes? Does this make any sense at all given that I don’t see him being even close to a prodigy? Is music just a crutch for him so he can avoid academics which have been challenging due to his dyslexia? "
What did this teacher say? He told me that our son was good but he was not the most talented high school student he has seen. But that does not really matter because what matters is how he develops as a musician and an artist. And if he is dead-set on becoming a musician then he certainly has the personality to make it happen. The key will be to find the right college setting for him to evolve and grow. This teacher constantly pointed out that for him there was no other option. He was determined to be a musician. And those are the kids who make it in the end. The kids who can not live without music being the main focus of their life. To quote him,
“The issue is that the music industry
is extremely challenging, and highly competitive. It takes the right blend
of musicianship, intellect and perseverance to find a way to make a living
at this.”
When our son got accepted to every program he applied I was a bit taken aback. I am not musical and honestly I had no idea what he was thinking with his applications. He fortunately had been given a scholarship after Berklee’s 5 week, so I knew he had Berklee as a safety. But secretly I was hoping he would fail so this smart young man would take a gap year and then go to a liberal arts college. His high school has a lot of brilliant super talented kids who the music teachers dote upon. Our son was not one of them. He was well liked by everyone and people appreciated that he worked hard and was a good bass player, but I don’t think anyone thought he was a prodigy or especially gifted musician. He had worked super hard his Junior and Senior year often skipping social things so he could practice. It was time well spent and he got his reward. Then I started trying to figure out where he should go, even though our son had basically made up his mind about where he wanted to go. In several cases I found myself talking to the potential Bass teachers at Eastman and at MSM. When I nervously asked them what our son’s admission meant for him and his music career and whether our son could make it as a musician, they both said, “I don’t know.” One teacher told me that over the years he saw many a brilliant student arrive as a Freshman only to not grow and develop. But then he said there would be students who were good, but not great, who would arrive and suddenly take off and become exceptional. Every musician’s career arch is different.
These days I still have no idea how to judge my son against other musicians. I know he gets asked to do a lot of gigs and he is dependable and well liked. I know he plays with some amazing talented musicians. Sometimes I like his music. (see my other thread). Sometimes I am just confused by what he is doing. What I do know is that I have followed his lead with this and the result is that he is happy and has no regrets. There have been times when he has talked about doing something else, but mostly he has kept his focus and continued to grow and develop as an artist and a performer.
Oh my point being that all musicians are constantly evolving and growing and changing. And it is almost impossible to predict what your son’s evolution will be.
It’s pretty different, I think, for classical musicians, particularly for strings and piano. Classical music is so hierarchical that you tend to be hyper-aware of where you stand, although I have seen many students move up in the ranks much more quickly than peers due to diligent work and great teaching. I don’t think it’s necessarily a good thing that the classical world can be so stratified. Years ago you could start studying as a teen and still have a shot at ending up in a major orchestra. Those days are long-gone. In some ways I envy the freedom that jazz musicians have in this regard.
Thank you, thoughtful folks. I was so happy to see some of the well-liked schools for jazz bass listed in this thread. I looked up several of them and did some dry runs through the net-cost calculators. I appreciated the schools that made it easy to find the tuition . Most are a couple levels deep in the financial aid zone, and some I could not find without running through the tedious net price calculators. With that experience at hand, I have to say that I see two major sub-groups (using my Dad eyes) - 1) those that appear financially beyond our reach without a stellar financial package and 2) UNT. Is UNT as lonely a price/value option as I think it is? We could A) try to learn which of the category-1 schools were more free with aid and/or B) we could look for perhaps “lesser” programs with a cost profile more in the category-2 range but that are near a great music city. There is time to look into all of that, but if there are any thoughts this early on, I’ll listen.
@GoForth - surely in all your amazingly thorough reading of this Forum you saw post after post which said you can’t reply on the NPC’s, or anecedotal knowledge, or anything at all, to give you an idea of what a school will actually cost for your child - if applying for a music major. Music merit is too significant a part of the package, and varies so wildly from kid to kid, that you just have to trust that out of the places your child applies, at least one will become affordable - no matter what the list price originally looked like. The only time this wouldn’t be true is if you were financially well-off and your child was not considered attractive enough in the pile of applicants that the college felt it necessary to offer any monies as a lure. Which is why it comes back to the audition. Which is not to say it’s not wise to have an financial safety like UNT or a SUNY, just in case.
Hey, my choice “B” above turned into a cool smiley.
I had not picked up on it very well before, but it is good to imagine that packages can vary widely (not sarcastic - I am a freelancer myself and like an environment full of action and possibilities). I saw in my readings that some students did acquire a full-ride at a nice place, but that was when I was thinking that all these students might be the trained-from-birth level of student. We are in that zone where we probably won’t get much need-based aid, yet a $40K/year cost would probably not be tenable.
Remember, there are places where one can get solid academic merit money - you still need the music admissions but money can come from the other side. Temple is such a place. The right grades and test scores can translate into very good merit aid which is adjusted up for OOS students.
Completely agree with others that it’s not possible to predict in advance what the actual cost will be given the merit money factor. We did not qualify for need-based aid, but of the four music schools that accepted my son, two offered fairly generous merit aid, one offered a little and one offered none. And my understanding is that the initial offers can sometimes be negotiated up, particularly if you have competing offers (though we did not try that as my son decided to go in another direction).
As for schools with good jazz programs near NYC that may have a lower sticker price, you might look at William Paterson and SUNY Purchase. Although I didn’t put either in my “top ten” list, they are among the many other schools that attract some very talented jazz musicians and have good faculty. Neither is in the city, but they’re close enough that students can get into the city for sessioning or gigging if they’re sufficiently motivated. My son has played with some very talented jazz musicians from both schools.
Of course UNT is a great school with a great reputation for its jazz program. 
(My smiley face is not as cool as yours)
GoForth: I have told you about my son’s resume earlier in this thread. He was not a “trained from birth” musician. He auditioned at Berklee, University of Miami/Frost, College of St Rose, U Mass Amherst (our state school) and Hartt. We told him when he was making his list that he had to realize that even if he got into a school, the decision as to whether he could go there would ultimately depend on the cost, since we were in the same position you are-too much $$ to qualify for financial aid, but not nearly enough to write a $50K check every year.
He would have loved to go to Berklee, which is super expensive, but he did not get enough merit $$ to make it feasible. Berklee allows you to “defer”, and re-audition for scholarship consideration without violating the rules regarding deferrals, since you are not required to make a deposit at the school in order to hold your place. Your acceptance is basically good for the following year. He was sufficiently satisfied at Hartt that he chose not to re-audition.
He got nothing at U Miami, but since he hated the guy he auditioned with he didn’t want to go there anyway. He got buttloads of $$ from College of St. Rose, but it was not a good fit.(mom silently weeping). He got sufficient $$ from Hartt to make the cost comparable to our state school. We were able to up the offer a little bit after an appeal.
I’ll second giving SUNY Purchase and Wm. Paterson a look. Very well regarded jazz programs and the bass faculty is excellent.
However OOS WIlliam Paterson is not a super bargain. They give very little music money - the biggest chunk of possible dollars are for the honors college (6k). Their music scholarships are in the 1-2k from my understanding (willing to be corrected) and no in-state tuition adjustment.