Screenname makes good points about the best course with jazz (about which I know next to nothing)… And of course the value of participation in school music depends on the school 
Most importantly, posters are always fortunate when StacJip answers. There are times when I want to make a poster out of one of StacJip’s posts. So just read it carefully!
Our son got a lot of mileage out of auditioning for and subsequently playing with the local college big band. It was really transformational. If he had to do it over I’m not sure if he would have dropped HS band this year as it was his social set, but he has said that he would happily have given up the HS jazz for the college band only. He definitely dealt with thy tyrannical director who seemed resentful of success and threw up silly road blocks.
Such good comments.
In my opinion, of course, right, S is generally calling his own shots. In fact, I ask on about a monthly basis is my studying and findings are something that he would continue to want to hear about. The shortcoming that S has right now is that when he has a goal in mind, he has not learned all of the resources available for learning and achieving more, so I listen to his ideas and provide information and occasionally suggestions to S.
Today, we double-checked S’ plan for the next school year and learned of a brand new option (item 1, below) coming into play. This is the thought:
I think this is a very coherent yet varied set of activities for the upcoming school year.
My S (bassist) definitly has grown the most playing in his jazz combo and in the youth symphony.
@drummergirl - I think we have generally come to think of auditions as leading to the right “fit” for that moment. Within some amount of variation, we have to trust the judges are making the right choices. Luckily(?), the combos and big bands are both multiple groups at various levels, such that, barring overcrowding, there are a few chances for placement.
Be aware, though, that the jazz world is actually really small. You’ll understand this as you start playing at the state and regional levels. The good thing is that you meet people and make connections; the bad is that everyone knows each other and auditions quickly stop being blind/impartial. Based on what I hear from my son’s teachers and mentors, who tour and play professionally, that aspect is simply a part of the industry. Connecting with mentors, who aren’t necessarily your teachers or even play the same instrument, is just something you do. If your son is promising, and it sounds like he is, he will suddenly get a lot of opportunities, and be asked to play in all sorts of ensembles. It then becomes an exercise of deciding who he wants to play with and what connections he wants to nurture.
I’m saying all this not as a criticism of the jazz industry or of you and your son’s plans. Just saying that when your son steps into that world outside of his local area, his “career” will begin to have a life of its own. So, don’t have a plan that’s set in stone or make commitments that doesn’t leave room for impromptu opportunities.
@GoForth - Having spent a LOT of time up at MYA I would recommend playing bass in the symphony. Dr D is a bassist himself and always has a formidable bass section. Even chairing all the way to the left would provide invaluable experience. I’ve heard a lot of college orchestras that don’t come up to this level. As a bassist myself I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on a formal jazz education. Jazz is better learned at gigs and a good solid college degree will mean much, much better straight gigs while honing your jazz bass chops at night. Jazz at this point is more for the passion, the love of the music than the money and probably always has been.
As far as the jazz program up at MYA, when my kid went through the orchestral program up there few years ago there were some absolutely terrifying bassists and sax players in the small ensembles, Juilliard and Mannes type players. It is an excellent program and I don’t know if there is anything better in a private setting. I went to a music school myself and taught myself the other stuff. If I had it to do over, I’d flip that.
@jb1966 - That is a very interesting reply. I am so curious, I have to ask in your last sentence, what is “the other stuff”? I would like to share your notes with S, but I didn’t know if the other stuff was jazz vs. classical, or music vs. business, etc?
S is learning classical method on the bowed upright bass right now, still with newbie squeaks or flaws here and there, so we had not thought of trying out for a classical section yet. We’ll keep eyes open.
@ScreenName48105 - S was thinking up til now to use jazz as the study platform, but S is just as happy playing funk, R&B, blues, reggae, and other genres, except for a couple.
Then he’s going to want to look at schools that emphasize cross-pollination. Some of the jazz programs are rather traditional, or maybe just more narrowly defined
@GoForth When I said “other stuff” I meant a general education. I’ve spent most of my adult life playing bass and doing other industry related jobs like recording engineer or commercial producer and it’s been a good run, but my choices of fill in jobs have been limited by my lack of a college degree. If somebody wants to play Rock or Funk or Alt or whatever, I would strongly suggest an excellent private teacher, hopefully one that is, or was a working professional and then get a formal education in something else.
As far as colleges and Jazz education I can’t speak with any authority because colleges weren’t offering Jazz way back when I was college age the way they are now. I’ve always been a little puzzled by the Jazz education. Are these grads going out and playing Jazz for a living somewhere? Sometimes I wonder if Jazz is being taught not because people want to play it, but because besides classical, it’s the only other music pedagogy out there. If you take away the post college teaching jobs, I wonder how much actual playing of Jazz makes up a grad’s day.
Now that said, I am a person who is currently putting a kid through a major conservatory playing viola, and a LOT of the the same arguments could be applied to a viola education. Even if I had wanted to curb my daughter’s enthusiasm for the viola I couldn’t have any more than I would have suggested she stop breathing so much. I say go the best college you can and then start a band. There have probably been a lot more successful bands formed in colleges than formed at music schools.
@ jb1966-
I asked someone that, a guy who was a professional jazz musician who taught at my son’s then private school (middle school), about the whole thing with Jazz and the programs that have grown there in recent years (I thought Juilliard’s jazz program went back to when William Schuman was the president, but it was only within the last 30 years it was added). Anyway, his thought was that some in the jazz world thought that institutionalizing jazz training on a parallel path to classical music, would strengthen the level of playing but also dispel some of the notions about jazz, that it was this loose and freestyle music and so forth, and for the music schools, he thought it was their attempt to show that the conservatories weren’t fossils (the irony being that this happened after Jazz went from being the mainstream of popular music to the kind of nice it is today, in its heyday the head of Juilliard (before Schuman) made a statement about jazz that it would never in effect foul the halls of Juilliard and the like.).
He was of two minds about it, he said at some of these programs they can attract really talented kids,the kind who want the college degree, and they can in a sense put together some fierce firepower, and the schools do a pretty good job with master classes and such, getting top musicians in. On the other hand, he also said he worried that the music schools might end up creating what you kind of said, the kind of thing where the programs become the destination for the very kids going through the programs, rather than putting out working Jazz musicians, they are putting out Jazz teachers to create the next generation of jazz teachers, and also worried that teaching it formally like that, you will end up with something that is kind of an oxymoron, standardized Jazz. Just his opinion, but thought it had some things worth thinking about. Part of it too, I guess potential jazz musicians want to study jazz and still have a college degree. Not being a musician, I can’t say if the added trappings of a college jazz program, having things like theory, make for a better jazz musician, or if studying privately will do as good or better a job.
I did realized quite a ways back that there had to be another way to teach and develop valuable music skills like sight reading, theory and composition for kids that don’t play an instrument like violin or cello. I think many of these kids love to play their particular instrument regardless of the style of music and go with whatever they are presented in the form of pedagogy. As far as a fear by some Jazz players that by institutionalizing the music will kill its free and creative atmosphere, I think the horse got out of the stable a long time ago. Discussions about what is or what is not “real Jazz” always refer back to paradigms decades old. I don’t know if in 100 years Jazz will still be a major teaching format or just a fascinating and enjoyable form American Folk music circa 1917-1969.
That said, a degree in music, which takes so much study, focus and dedication is a valuable goal to strive for and I encourage it in any format. Tomorrow morning I will go do live sound at a church that has a group of excellent Jazz musicians providing the music and they have a mix of music, non-music, or no college degrees. Who’s to say what works best?
Hello, All.
It has been a while since I posted about S, so I did a quick scan of what my last updates were - pardon if I repeat anything already said elsewhere.
S is away at drum corps chopping away on his snare. Learning about fine tuning something in fine details. Learning about road life.
Just before he left for camp, he learned that he did get a place in the MYA jazz workshop for double bass. That is very nice for him in his junior year of HS. Maybe he’ll later explore their opportunities for his senior year, whether more jazz or orchestra.
S did decide to drop HS band, so that frees up a nice chunk of time.
While S continues to work on chops on both the classical and the jazz fronts, on the jazz front, it looks like the main assignment is to build repertoire. On the classical front, he will be starting with focus on ‘vibrato’ when he returns from camp. While one might be silly to intentionally conduct this experiment, we will note the extent of bass chops being affected by a summer of minimal practice.
S has input from his jazz (non-high-school) band leader to try ILMEA - which I finally understand is the avenue of approach for these “all state” things that are so often mentioned here. I really did not know under what umbrella an all-state was until this month. The band leader says the purpose is to see what range of talent is out there, to get some ideas. So, S signed up for that event; auditions a week and a half from now. Our high school believes that S will be the first ever jazz entry to ILMEA.
Good luck on your son’s audition, @GoForth.
@GoForth, good luck to your son! My S was in our state’s all state jazz band his freshman and sophomore years and really enjoyed the experience; the kids he met in those bands are ones he’s run into many times since, in various state-wide events, honor bands, etc. It becomes a ‘small world’ pretty quickly.
@ScreenName48105 - Thanks. S found out today he made it into regional/district for jazz bass. That seems really nice. It was certainly good to go through the extra audition, and he saw a few familiar faces there.
congratulations to your son! It’s a great experience
@drummergirl - thanks. We are starting to see that “jazz is a small circle” thing. The drummer in the jazz group that S qualified for is a drummer we have bumped into several times now. The drummer also got into the orchestral districts, and next year S plans to audition for orchestral and jazz, too.
One of S’ instructors is involved somehow in the orchestral district and also said that S should have tried it out - and that he probably would have made it. Well, that was shocking given S’ nubieness at upright bass. But the instructor also said it means nothing if S did not make it - instructor said there is a lot of internal controversy over who makes it and who does not.